WHY is this??

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

I understand that it is impossible to truly, objectively PROVE that he was the greatest boxer of all time, however with as much as is known about him I find it easy to say that I know of no fighters who have matched his exploits.
That doesn't mean he was the best but who can say they are better?

His exploits have to include 19 losses and being dropped MANY times in his career. Hagler was unlike anything Robby ever matched up with as a pro.

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

Iceman, can you tell me when you were an amateur, what kind of training did you do the last 7 days leading up to the fight? How hard did you go, how many rounds, what kind of roadwork, etc. Thanks for your input.

Ideally before an amateur fight you would want to rest for a good day and a half or two.... you can spar as hard as you want on the Monday before a Friday night fight but everything from Tuesday on should probably be more along the lines of shadowboxing, jogging, light pads, jumping rope, exercises etc

[kayjay]

You can certainly rate fighters based on merit. Who they fought, what they win etc. But saying Sugar Ray Robinson was the best fighter ever, in that context, doesn't mean he'd beat, say a Floyd Mayweather at 147. I'm not saying he wouldn't, I'm saying anyone who claims to "know" either way, is full of it.

ATG theories are usually based on relative accomplishment, not cross-historical hypotheticals. If you were lightweight or weltewrweight champ and moved to middle or light heavy . . . . etc., are the things to consider, not how SRR would fare against PBF and such silly fantasies.

[Technical_Skill]

This is a quality thread.

Boxing has come on a long way since guys like SRR fought, the fighters now are better prepared, due advances in healthcare, more money to spend on training equipment, advances in boxing gear such as gloves, boots etc.

I dont believe the best fighters of our era are inferior to those in the past,

People are often quick to talk about past fighters, simply out of nostaliga, when the truth is, boxing is techinally much more sound now than it was in the past.

Obivously there are a few exceptions, some fighters now are less techincally sound then some fighters in the past, but i think the best of this era, are perhaps more skilled than the best of past eras.

I mean, Jack Johnson couldnt fight, he would just club and swarm, put hin in the ring with proper boxing rules against someone like Klitchko (nowhere near the best HW of our era) he would most likely get beat IMO.

Archie Moore, Supposeldy the greatest Lightheavy ever? he was defensively skilled, but got beat up by ordinary guys, a guy like RJJ would decisivley beat Archie Moore IMO.

As a whole with the increasing amount of money in boxing now compared to then, boxing now is far more modernised and fighters as a result are better trained, better conditioned, faster (on the whole), healthier.

People simply assume fighters from the past are the best, simply out of Nostaligia, it's done in all sports.

A major example of this is Bert Sugar and his top 100 of time.

Marciano was way above tyson.

Rediculous, Marciano was nowehere near the fighter tyson was, Mariciano beat a very old Joe Lewis and his first Heavyweight title fight he was being comprehensively outboxed before he landed a lucky home run punch and won by KO, Tyson would knock Marciano out stone clold.

Alot of people assume the past was better than the present.

This is not always the case.

In My Opinion.

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

[QUOTE=Technical_Skill;2289178] Ridiculous, Marciano was nowehere near the fighter tyson was, Marciano beat a very old Joe Lewis and his first Heavyweight title fight he was being comprehensively outboxed before he landed a lucky home run punch and won by KO, Tyson would knock Marciano out stone cold. QUOTE]

People say that Louis was "very old" but actually he was only 37. People have long had this image of him being almost elderly when he fought Marciano and it's not fair to Rocky M. Louis was on an 8 fight winning streak and had just beaten Jimmy Bivins by decision a couple months before and he stopped Lee Savold earlier that year

[Technical_Skill]

[QUOTE=ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY;2289296]

Ridiculous, Marciano was nowehere near the fighter tyson was, Marciano beat a very old Joe Lewis and his first Heavyweight title fight he was being comprehensively outboxed before he landed a lucky home run punch and won by KO, Tyson would knock Marciano out stone cold. QUOTE]

People say that Louis was "very old" but actually he was only 37. People have long had this image of him being almost elderly when he fought Marciano and it's not fair to Rocky M. Louis was on an 8 fight winning streak and had just beaten Jimmy Bivins by decision a couple months before and he stopped Lee Savold earlier that year

37 aint young when you been in some very competitive fights, Marciano was lucky to win his first world title, tyson would have knocked him out so cold, they would have had to hold him over a fire to thaw him out.

Just my opinion.

I know what you mean.

[Kball15]

NO!!!!!!!! aaaaaaaaah

They say SRR is the greatest, because they are amazed with his handspeed and everything at MIDDLEWEIGHT!!!

Then they think, Holy ****, his hands were even FASTER at welterweight, he was an even MORE complete fighter, He has to be the greatest!

Same thing with ALI!!!!

The people who argue that ALI is the greatest ever, say that we never even saw him in his prime... get it?

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

Marciano was LUCKY to win his title? He is lucky Walcott didn't DIE from that shot. Give the man credit, come on now. I love Tyson and Ali, never was a big fan of the Rock but you gotta give credit where credit is due. Tyson KO'd Berbick with 1 punch and that was cool but Marciano OBLITERATED Walcott with a late round KO and that was luck?? OK

[Technical_Skill]

Marciano was LUCKY to win his title? He is lucky Walcott didn't DIE from that shot. Give the man credit, come on now. I love Tyson and Ali, never was a big fan of the Rock but you gotta give credit where credit is due. Tyson KO'd Berbick with 1 punch and that was cool but Marciano OBLITERATED Walcott with a late round KO and that was luck?? OK

Please,

It was a home run punch,

He was getting decisivley beaten

I wont even go into Marciano's ties with the mob,

and the allegations he actually lost fights, that were wiped from his record.

Just an opinion ok.

[CletusVanDamme]

The problem is that theway it is now NOBODY wil ever be able to be called greater than Robby because the legnd has grown so big. I read an article today where a guy who is only like 27 years old was saying how "Ray Robinson is without a doubt the best fighter that ever lived, end of discussion." Now what is he basing that on? Peopl emake it out to be as if Leonard, Jones etc would have NO chance with him, like he would just walk right through them like they were nothing. People REALLY believe that, to0, despite the fact that u can see him as a middleweight (where he would have matched with RJ) and he clearly had flaws to his game. He was obviously great but I just think that the high majority of those that tout him as such are basing it on what other people say. People that saw him back then had never seen anything like RR and they wrote glowingly about him....but could you imagine of Hagler, Hearns and RJ were around at 160 pounds in the days of Graziano, Zale, Basilio and Fullmer??. Love them or hate them, each one of those guys gives RR much more trouble at 160 then Basilio.

Robinson-Fusari exists as footage at 147 and another fight I can't recall. Ofcourse Hearns, Hagler and RJ give him more trouble than Basilio who was really just a blown up welter anyhow. That is a no brainer. It comes down to if you believe thousands of writers that saw Robinson in his prime doesn't.