Joe C's Comments On Kessler Fight

[El Jesus]

This would be a more sensible debate if it wasn't in a thread about the supermiddle division... where a title holder fought a diet of stiffs and shot fighters as part of his championship reign.

As for the point of The Blow coming over, he's an established world champion. Why would a world champion come over to another country for chump change just because "we don't care"? Or are you telling me The Blow could have got a $10mil payday for fighting Hopkins when he was in his 20s and missed out?

So then moving up or down a division is such a problem?

Hes an established world champion, so was ****in Kostya Tszyu when he chose to come fight ricky hatton. Sure Joe C is a world champion, but how long has he been one? You telling me all these years he couldnt take those tuneups in Vegas? In Atlantic City? In Boston? You telling me that couldnt happen? Hatton gets tuneups here just fine.

[Guest]

Id say as opposed to reading and understanding the point, your choosing to simply disagree by trying to convince others that somehow fighting in the United States does nothing to boost your profile as a fighter, Anorak has tried this argument as well. This logic has been proven false, so id say, your not as much psychic as much as someone has already given you the proper reasoning behind why coming here is so important, and choosing to discard it as opposed to accepting that this is the way it is. Nobody has ever become a worldwide star without a career defining fight here to my knowledge. i mean WORLD WIDE star.

No, no, no, that's NOT what I'm saying AT ALL.

[El Jesus]

I dunno why people bring up Big Len in discussions like these... Big Len hardly got a good deal by coming over to the States, did he? Unless you call Eddie Cotton's refereeing and a "draw" with Holyfield a good deal.

The point is, he was here, He beat Tyson, He beat many lucrative fighters in his division, he chose to come here and lay it on the line, thats why he is highly regarded here in the states. The fight against holyfield was bull****, but so what, he made up for it by knocking out other contenders in his way

[OptimusWolf]

TBH Black Jesus, world wide star is a stretch for any boxer nowadays. the sport is in a serious, prolonged and potentially terminal decline. But Calzaghe would have had one of the best chances. A Celtic/Italian guy with a saleable image, who loves to brawl but has good skills and a great chin. He could have made a lot of money in the US, but for one reason or another he never wanted it bad enough.

[Guest]

So then moving up or down a division is such a problem?

Hes an established world champion, so was ****in Kostya Tszyu when he chose to come fight ricky hatton. Sure Joe C is a world champion, but how long has he been one? You telling me all these years he couldnt take those tuneups in Vegas? In Atlantic City? In Boston? You telling me that couldnt happen? Hatton gets tuneups here just fine.

He could have taken tune ups, sure. Though while I'm not necessarily condoning his stance, I can understand, from his POV, why he wouldn't want to risk the cards in the US, even on a tune up. It's just not black and white with me, I can see all angles. I would have liked The Blow to be at Madison Square Garden, but it's too convenient and easy to say "he's never been to the States, he doesn't want it" et al.

[El Jesus]

No, no, no, that's NOT what I'm saying AT ALL.

So what are you guys saying then? The fact is, if there is a good fight that is one division up, or one division down from your own division, and there are no lucrative fights at the division your at, why the **** shouldnt you move up or down and try to get something bigger going here in the USA? Why just sit at home and wait for an oppurtunity that may never happen. So Joe C cleaned up supermiddle, big ****in deal, you move up and try to make it big by fighting here and showing your face so people WILL care who you fight.

[El Jesus]

TBH Black Jesus, world wide star is a stretch for any boxer nowadays. the sport is in a serious, prolonged and potentially terminal decline. But Calzaghe would have had one of the best chances. A Celtic/Italian guy with a saleable image, who loves to brawl but has good skills and a great chin. He could have made a lot of money in the US, but for one reason or another he never wanted it bad enough.

The point is, Career defining fights for the most part take place here, very few dont. Maybe that will change in the future, but thats a different subject, this is now and thats how it is. There is more money to be made here, more exposure and more potential fandom, and a white man who can fight can make all the money in the world in america like you stated, garunteed. Joe can fight, which is why this is all a damn shame to me.

[Guest]

The point is, he was here, He beat Tyson, He beat many lucrative fighters in his division, he chose to come here and lay it on the line, thats why he is highly regarded here in the states. The fight against holyfield was bull****, but so what, he made up for it by knocking out other contenders in his way

See, I don't think he's "highly regarded" in the States at all. Reading these boards there's still a huge amount of resistance to the guy and his standing in history.

As for Tyson, regardless of the end result, he had a KD transformed into a point deduction, had excessive biased refereeing against him, and I'd be curious to know what the scoring was on that close first round. The guy himself said when he was 4-2 down against Vitali when it was stopped that it would have been the other way if it wasn't in America. I don't necessarily agree with that (I had Vitali up too) but it's a point.

And when the guy came over to get absolutely shafted in one of the worst robberies I've ever seen, then saying "so what, he made up for it by knocking out other contenders in his way" does not dismiss the point within this debate.

[.Mik.]

To be honest. I think that Calzaghe wants the big fights in America for the money, the fame and the legacy. But none of the big fighters want him.

I think that he is frightened of taking the small 'tune-up' fights in America through fear that he will end up getting screwed over (we've heard before that he is paranoid about his career) for a small payday that will damage his legacy. He's not the only fighter who has thought this way about fighting out of his home country, including many very highly-rated American champions. I DO think that he needs to take a risk, but I understand his concerns.

[Knicksman20]

He could have taken tune ups, sure. Though while I'm not necessarily condoning his stance, I can understand, from his POV, why he wouldn't want to risk the cards in the US, even on a tune up. It's just not black and white with me, I can see all angles. I would have liked The Blow to be at Madison Square Garden, but it's too convenient and easy to say "he's never been to the States, he doesn't want it" et al.

I agree with you to an extent though Anorak. I mean the guy sat on the WBO for a long time fighting mando's. All that time & he couldn't make a big fight? I highly doubt it. I know there have been failed attempts to make big fights but come on. It really seemed he was content to make money off fighting the opposition in front of him instead of trying to make bigger fights.