Who is the linear HW champ now?

[wmute]

if you go by the "beat the man who beat the man" theory, which i think is ******, here it is...

tyson unifies belts, so we start w/him: tyson>douglas>holy>bowe>holy>moorer>foreman>briggs(lol, thats crap)>lewis>rahman>lewis

lewis retires, so it goes back to the last man to beat him, rahman who then loses to holy, who loses to byrd, who loses to wlad... so that makes wlad the champ going by the "beat the man rule" that makes briggs a linear champ...

it turns out the theory you think is ******, is the most followed, because it is the only one which resembles what would happen if there was no alphabet soup

fyi tyson' s unification does not matter much, what matter is him beating spinks

m.spinks
holmes
ali
l.spinks
ali
foreman
frazier
ali
liston
patterson

patterson unified in a tournament of HW after marciano retired

[iron mike tyson]

wlad is the best but the lineal heavywieght champion is lennox lewis.
until somebody unifiys they cant lay a claim to the vacant ring title (which is to show your the lineal champ)

[K-DOGG]

... Maskaev? Briggs? Wlad? Valuev?

Lewis...if you want to get technical.


None of the "titlists" have become the lineal champ, yet.


Here's how they rank in importance:


1. Wladimir Klitschko.....as a Top 5 fighter, he beat long time IBF titlist and the best or second best fighter in the world in Chris Byrd and beat ranked contenders Sam Peter and Calvin Brock.

2. Oleg Maskaev.....as a lower tier contender, he beat a top 10 heavyweight in WBC Titlist Hasim Rahman.

3. Shannon Briggs...as a lower tier contender, he beat Liakhovich, who had beaten top ranked WBO Titlist Lamon Brewster.

4. Nicolay Valuev....as a lower tier contender, he beat WBA titlist John Ruiz, who had previoiusly lost to James Toney, prior to the illegal substance use allegations.

5. Vitali Klitschko...is WBC champion emeritus, which means he was the best in the world two years ago, along with Chris Byrd and should he beat Maskaev, he would rightfully be the second best in the world, next to his brother.



To get a lineal champ: Wladimir Klitschko must face and defeat either Shannon Briggs or Oleg Maskaev; but preferably both, or their conquerors.

[!!Captain]

Lewis...if you want to get technical.


None of the "titlists" have become the lineal champ, yet.


Here's how they rank in importance:


1. Wladimir Klitschko.....as a Top 5 fighter, he beat long time IBF titlist and the best or second best fighter in the world in Chris Byrd and beat ranked contenders Sam Peter and Calvin Brock.

2. Oleg Maskaev.....as a lower tier contender, he beat a top 10 heavyweight in WBC Titlist Hasim Rahman.

3. Shannon Briggs...as a lower tier contender, he beat Liakhovich, who had beaten top ranked WBO Titlist Lamon Brewster.

4. Nicolay Valuev....as a lower tier contender, he beat WBA titlist John Ruiz, who had previoiusly lost to James Toney, prior to the illegal substance use allegations.

5. Vitali Klitschko...is WBC champion emeritus, which means he was the best in the world two years ago, along with Chris Byrd and should he beat Maskaev, he would rightfully be the second best in the world, next to his brother.



To get a lineal champ: Wladimir Klitschko must face and defeat either Shannon Briggs or Oleg Maskaev; but preferably both, or their conquerors.

Do you think Wlad is better than Vitali?

[K-DOGG]

Do you think Wlad is better than Vitali?

At this stage, until we see Vitali in action, I would presume so. Wlad has grown under Steward while Vitali's been absent from the ring. And, to be truthful, Vital, outside of Kirk Johnson, earned his reputation on a loss, so it's only fair to give the nod to Wladimir until Vitali proves he's back and better.

I'd say he's tougher and has a better chin....but Wlad's the better boxer...and has "beaten" better competition.

[!!Captain]

At this stage, until we see Vitali in action, I would presume so. Wlad has grown under Steward while Vitali's been absent from the ring. And, to be truthful, Vital, outside of Kirk Johnson, earned his reputation on a loss, so it's only fair to give the nod to Wladimir until Vitali proves he's back and better.

I'd say he's tougher and has a better chin....but Wlad's the better boxer...and has "beaten" better competition.

You're right about the fact that the judgement should be withheld until we see him in action.

Before Vitali retired though, I always thought that he is a much better fighter than Wlad. Yes, Wlad is faster and maybe a little better skilled. But I always thought that Vitali has a much more complete package: great chin, great heart, a very good defense, ability to use his size advantage to the fullest, etc., etc.

As of today, you're right. Will you change your opinion if Vitali will show that his skills did not diminish?

[GranTorino]

Wladimir Klitschko

no1 else comes close to the claim.

This is true.

[K-DOGG]

You're right about the fact that the judgement should be withheld until we see him in action.

Before Vitali retired though, I always thought that he is a much better fighter than Wlad. Yes, Wlad is faster and maybe a little better skilled. But I always thought that Vitali has a much more complete package: great chin, great heart, a very good defense, ability to use his size advantage to the fullest, etc., etc.

As of today, you're right. Will you change your opinion if Vitali will show that his skills did not diminish?

Well, to be honestly, it will be a bit of a kunumdrum for me because I don't think Maskaev is all that good of a fighter and certainly doesn't compare with Bryd or Brock or Peter IMO. He was in the right place at the right time and beat the right man, Rahman, who I also feel was overrated. If Vitali destroys Maskaev, he'll be doing exactly what is expected of him; and I'd still have Wlad out in front. Now, if he follows that up by beating Briggs and lets say Wladimir beats Valuev...then we've got a damn tie.

See, most people felt Wladimir was the better fighter until Sanders blitzed him....and then, that loss, IMO, led to his loss against Brewster. He tried too hard to knock Brewster out and ended up punching himself out. In the meantime, Vitali looks damn good against Lewis and damn near beats him and then destroys Kirk Johnson and the man who beat his brother, which made him the better of the two at that point. Vitali was #1, Byrd was #2, and Wlad was somewhere around #12 or 10 or so.

Now, Wlad has comeback and beaten Peter, and got off the canvas to do it, beat Byrd in devastating fasion, and knocked Brock out near cold. Vitali, on the other hand, made one defense of his title against Danny Williams, who at that point, had beaten a shot Mike Tyson. So, competition is in Wladimir's favour at this point.

We'll just have to wait and see. I just don't want to take away from Wladimir's accomplishments because his brother, who used to be the better fighter, is coming back. That's just not fair to Wladimir.

[Leo Pradun]

Sure, and if Klitschko were WBC champ Hopkins would call him out.

u know he wouldnt call him out, hopkins would get smoked in the 1st round..

[Leo Pradun]

Very good discussion going on here. I think Wladimir Klitschko is the number 1 guy right now. It will be interesting to see how Vitali does when he gets back. I think Vitali-Sam Peter would be a superfight after Vitali beats Maskaev wich is not an easy fight either..