Pac/Floyd investigation, documented punches (disputed rounds) blow by blow

[travestyny]

No .... just getting started but lets start with YOU equating the panel's discussion on Threshold Substance to mean they are discussing the BAP threshold test criteria ..... Well, all this is tied of course ...... !

YOU MORON!!!!!

Nearly the whole damn thing was about the BAP's supposed threshold criteria. And what did the court say??????

The fact is that the BAP and the other interpretative criteria are used to declare not a threshold of human body production but rather an image from the electropherogram as indicating the presence of non-human EPO.

Meanwhile, you're caught out there saying that there are threshold criteria that do represent human body production, and when the threshold exceeds that, it represents non-human EPO

EPO drug when it exceeds or
just human EPO if it does not exceed!

GIVE UP!!!!! It's over!!!!

[ADP02]

I've explained this to you the same way the court explained it to the athlete. That you still can't understand is on you. The athlete never brings up threshold substances, but only points to a threshold for BAP. The court says clearly, there are no threshold criteria, because this is not a threshold substance. Just like I told you. You tried to then say there could still be threshold criteria because of the BAP, but the court shut you down!!!! You were pushing so hard on your BAP crap, now that's gone, and you want to deflect another route. It's not going to work, MR. 4-0 Loser DEFLECTOR!

That is in DIRECT CONFLICT with what the court said:

Explain, ADP!

Are you going to continue to DEFLECT from every single question that I ask?

YOU ARE SO WRONG!!!



How can you even try to even think that the panel is saying what you were thinking when the panel is stating that?


THINK! Not just for EPO but for other substances, there can be several criteria tests. One or more criteria can have a threshold type criteria but the substance does not have to be a threshold substance!!!!

I even told you.

T/E RATIO is a threshold type test. If the result is over or below the threshold, there can still be other critieria to test.

To tie it with the BAP test, it is a criteria but the panel was trying to state that there can be other criteria that either confirm or do not the BAP threshold test!!!

That is what you are having such a hard time understanding.

With Nandrolone it is a threshold substance. If the threshold is surpassed, then its an indication that this was due to the athlete using illegal drugs. If below the threshold then the indication is that the value is due to human origin!!!! That is it!

EPO is NOT tested that way. As I said before, there are many tests and all I kept stating is that there is a threshold type criteria test. That is what I meant and tried to explain to you BUT YOU DO NOT WANT TO BELIEVE!!!


Going back to the case, the panel is stating that there are other ways to come to a conclusion NOT just the BAP test. Previously it was basically the only one so they went with that. SO it was a threshold type test!

STILL, the question of the day was the test itself, is it a threshold type test? YOU BET!!!!

BOTH SIDEs and in fact even the panel says that it was reliable and could have been used even in this case if the LAB chose to .... BUT the LAB has new criteria and the panel agreed that BAP test is not the sole test!!!


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[travestyny]

YOU ARE SO WRONG!!!



How can you even try to even think that the panel is saying what you were thinking when the panel is stating that?


THINK! Not just for EPO but for other substances, there can be several criteria tests. One or more criteria can have a threshold type criteria but the substance does not have to be a threshold substance!!!!

I even told you.

T/E RATIO is a threshold type test. If the result is over or below the threshold, there can still be other critieria to test.

To tie it with the BAP test, it is a criteria but the panel was trying to state that there can be other criteria that either confirm or do not the BAP threshold test!!!

That is what you are having such a hard time understanding.

With Nandrolone it is a threshold substance. If the threshold is surpassed, then its an indication that this was due to the athlete using illegal drugs. If below the threshold then the indication is that the value is due to human origin!!!! That is it!

EPO is NOT tested that way. As I said before, there are many tests and all I kept stating is that there is a threshold type criteria test. That is what I meant and tried to explain to you BUT YOU DO NOT WANT TO BELIEVE!!!


Going back to the case, the panel is stating that there are other ways to come to a conclusion NOT just the BAP test. Previously it was basically the only one so they went with that. SO it was a threshold type test!

STILL, the question of the day was the test itself, is it a threshold type test? YOU BET!!!!

BOTH SIDEs and in fact even the panel says that it was reliable and could have been used even in this case if the LAB chose to .... BUT the LAB has new criteria and the panel agreed that BAP test is not the sole test!!!


.

You're like a broken record. It's not going to work. You blatantly ignored that the court said a numerical limit does not exist for the BAP. So what was the threshold, ADP? You won't answer this question....or the below.


Did you not say there is a threshold above which it can be said there is non-human production of the substance????

I mean, looks like you are saying that here.

EPO drug when it exceeds or
just human EPO if it does not exceed!

It’s over.

there is no threshold above which it can be said there is non-human production of the substance

If you can't explain this, stop writing to me. And I know you can't explain it

[ADP02]

You're like a broken record. It's not going to work. You blatantly ignored that the court said a numerical limit does not exist for the BAP. So what was the threshold, ADP? You won't answer this question....or the below.


Did you not say there is a threshold above which it can be said there is non-human production of the substance????

I mean, looks like you are saying that here.

It’s over.

If you can't explain this, stop writing to me. And I know you can't explain it

What? I wrote many posts explaining to you what I meant. You mean to tell you that you still do not understand?


One of the tests is a measurement of INTENSITY. They compare bands from above the CUT-OFF LINE and below. This comparison is a RATIO comparison that verifies if it is over or below based on the criteria.
The INTENSITY if it exceeds then the test indicates EPO drug use. Below it is indicative that it is not due to EPO drug hence human origin!


BUT you know that I have been drumming this to you for a long time. I explained it to you to make you understand what I meant.

I think this: You do not want to understand, right?


BAP was a threshold criteria type test. Initially it was the only test but in that special case, meaning transition period, the panel accepted other criteria. That is what the panel was trying to tell YOU and the athlete!!!

You confused those statements completely. From the start, all you keep on doing is showing me threshold substance list or talk about threshold substance.


I am not discussing that. I'm discussing a test. A test where there can be multiple tests as well therefore that test does not always mean that it is conclusive to the overall result. You have 4 criteria as an example, you verify all 4. One can be a threshold type test criteria but you still need to look at the other 3 plus in the case of EPO, there are other checks and balances such as a 2nd opinion and so on.

NOTE: It can be that the threshold test or another criteria is all that is needed at times BUT as the panel stated, the LAB can use another criteria (especially due to the new findings)


As I said, EPO testing is a special case. It belongs in its own or different category, if you will.........


.


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[travestyny]

What? I wrote many posts explaining to you what I meant. You mean to tell you that you still do not understand?


One of the tests is a measurement of INTENSITY. They compare bands from above the CUT-OFF LINE and below. This comparison is a RATIO comparison that verifies if it is over or below based on the criteria.
The INTENSITY if it exceeds then the test indicates EPO drug use. Below it is indicative that it is not due to EPO drug hence human origin!


BUT you know that I have been drumming this to you for a long time. I explained it to you to make you understand what I meant.

I think this: You do not want to understand, right?


BAP was a threshold criteria type test. Initially it was the only test but in that special case, meaning transition period, the panel accepted other criteria. That is what the panel was trying to tell YOU and the athlete!!!

You confused those statements completely. From the start, all you keep on doing is showing me threshold substance list or talk about threshold substance.


I am not discussing that. I'm discussing a test. A test where there can be multiple tests as well therefore that test does not always mean that it is conclusive to the overall result. You have 4 criteria as an example, you verify all 4. One can be a threshold type test criteria but you still need to look at the other 3 plus in the case of EPO, there are other checks and balances such as a 2nd opinion and so on.

NOTE: It can be that the threshold test or another criteria is all that is needed at times BUT as the panel stated, the LAB can use another criteria (especially due to the new findings)


As I said, EPO testing is a special case. It belongs in its own or different category, if you will.........


.


.

Stop it unless you answer my questions. You just deflect and it's boring already.


Doesn't this:

EPO drug when it exceeds or
just human EPO if it does not exceed!

Conflict with this:

there is no threshold above which it can be said there is non-human production of the substance

[ADP02]

What? I wrote many posts explaining to you what I meant. You mean to tell you that you still do not understand?


One of the tests is a measurement of INTENSITY. They compare bands from above the CUT-OFF LINE and below. This comparison is a RATIO comparison that verifies if it is over or below based on the criteria.
The INTENSITY if it exceeds then the test indicates EPO drug use. Below it is indicative that it is not due to EPO drug hence human origin!


BUT you know that I have been drumming this to you for a long time. I explained it to you to make you understand what I meant.

I think this: You do not want to understand, right?


BAP was a threshold criteria type test. Initially it was the only test but in that special case, meaning transition period, the panel accepted other criteria. That is what the panel was trying to tell YOU and the athlete!!!

You confused those statements completely. From the start, all you keep on doing is showing me threshold substance list or talk about threshold substance.


I am not discussing that. I'm discussing a test. A test where there can be multiple tests as well therefore that test does not always mean that it is conclusive to the overall result. You have 4 criteria as an example, you verify all 4. One can be a threshold type test criteria but you still need to look at the other 3 plus in the case of EPO, there are other checks and balances such as a 2nd opinion and so on.

NOTE: It can be that the threshold test or another criteria is all that is needed at times BUT as the panel stated, the LAB can use another criteria (especially due to the new findings)


As I said, EPO testing is a special case. It belongs in its own or different category, if you will.........


.


.

Stop it unless you answer my questions. You just deflect and it's boring already.


Doesn't this:



Conflict with this:

Are you serious?


I just explained it to you AGAIN and it went right over your head!!!!



I still do not understand how you could have taken what the panel was stating from those statements other than it is NOT a threshold substance?

I don't want to put words in your mouth but what you are taking from the panel's comments was that because it is not a threshold substance that there cannot be threshold type tests for non-threshold substances? I on the other hand believe that you can have threshold type tests for non-threshold substances!!! It really comes down to this at the end of the day.

If you finally understood where I was coming from and agree with me, then we are good .... and I'm OK with it taking you so long that we can call it a draw.



.

[travestyny]

Are you serious?


I just explained it to you AGAIN and it went right over your head!!!!



I still do not understand how you could have taken what the panel was stating from those statements other than it is NOT a threshold substance?

I don't want to put words in your mouth but what you are taking from the panel's comments was that because it is not a threshold substance that there cannot be threshold type tests for non-threshold substances? I on the other hand believe that you can have threshold type tests for non-threshold substances!!! It really comes down to this at the end of the day.

If you finally understood where I was coming from and agree with me, then we are good .... and I'm OK with it taking you so long that we can call it a draw.



.

You're lying to yourself. Stop with your delusion.


Answer the question. Are these saying something different, or what?

EPO drug when it exceeds or
just human EPO if it does not exceed!

there is no threshold above which it can be said there is non-human production of the substance

Why won't you answer?


You can keep repeating the same thing over and over, but it won't change the fact that you are WRONG deflector

YOU can call it what you want. Officially, we both know it's 4-0 and now you can't answer a question because you have been proven WRONG!!! As long as you duck this post, you can't win!

[ADP02]

YOU ARE SO WRONG!!!



How can you even try to even think that the panel is saying what you were thinking when the panel is stating that? LOL


THINK! Not just for EPO but for other substances, there can be several criteria tests. One or more criteria can have a threshold type criteria but the substance does not have to be a threshold substance!!!!

I even told you.

T/E RATIO is a threshold type test. If the result is over or below the threshold, there can still be other critieria to test.

To tie it with the BAP test, it is a criteria but the panel was trying to state that there can be other criteria that either confirm or do not the BAP threshold test!!!

That is what you are having such a hard time understanding.

With Nandrolone it is a threshold substance. If the threshold is surpassed, then its an indication that this was due to the athlete using illegal drugs. If below the threshold then the indication is that the value is due to human origin!!!! That is it!

EPO is NOT tested that way. As I said before, there are many tests and all I kept stating is that there is a threshold type criteria test. That is what I meant and tried to explain to you BUT YOU DO NOT WANT TO BELIEVE!!!


Going back to the case, the panel is stating that there are other ways to come to a conclusion NOT just the BAP test. Previously it was basically the only one so they went with that. SO it was a threshold type test!

STILL, the question of the day was the test itself, is it a threshold type test? YOU BET!!!!

BOTH SIDEs and in fact even the panel says that it was reliable and could have been used even in this case if the LAB chose to .... BUT the LAB has new criteria and the panel agreed that BAP test is not the sole test!!!


.

You're like a broken record. It's not going to work. You blatantly ignored that the court said a numerical limit does not exist for the BAP. So what was the threshold, ADP? You won't answer this question....or the below.


Did you not say there is a threshold above which it can be said there is non-human production of the substance????

I mean, looks like you are saying that here.

It’s over.

If you can't explain this, stop writing to me. And I know you can't explain it

What? I wrote many posts explaining to you what I meant. You mean to tell you that you still do not understand?


One of the tests is a measurement of INTENSITY. They compare bands from above the CUT-OFF LINE and below. This comparison is a RATIO comparison that verifies if it is over or below based on the criteria.
The INTENSITY if it exceeds then the test indicates EPO drug use. Below it is indicative that it is not due to EPO drug hence human origin!


BUT you know that I have been drumming this to you for a long time. I explained it to you to make you understand what I meant.

I think this: You do not want to understand, right?


BAP was a threshold criteria type test. Initially it was the only test but in that special case, meaning transition period, the panel accepted other criteria. That is what the panel was trying to tell YOU and the athlete!!!

You confused those statements completely. From the start, all you keep on doing is showing me threshold substance list or talk about threshold substance.


I am not discussing that. I'm discussing a test. A test where there can be multiple tests as well therefore that test does not always mean that it is conclusive to the overall result. You have 4 criteria as an example, you verify all 4. One can be a threshold type test criteria but you still need to look at the other 3 plus in the case of EPO, there are other checks and balances such as a 2nd opinion and so on.

NOTE: It can be that the threshold test or another criteria is all that is needed at times BUT as the panel stated, the LAB can use another criteria (especially due to the new findings)


As I said, EPO testing is a special case. It belongs in its own or different category, if you will.........


.


.

Stop it unless you answer my questions. You just deflect and it's boring already.


Doesn't this:



Conflict with this:

Are you serious? LOL


I just explained it to you AGAIN and it went right over your head!!!!



I still do not understand how you could have taken what the panel was stating from those statements other than it is NOT a threshold substance?

I don't want to put words in your mouth but what you are taking from the panel's comments was that because it is not a threshold substance that there cannot be threshold type tests for non-threshold substances? I on the other hand believe that you can have threshold type tests for non-threshold substances!!! It really comes down to this at the end of the day.

If you finally understood where I was coming from and agree with me, then we are good .... and I'm OK with it taking you so long that we can call it a draw.



.

You're lying to yourself. Stop with your delusion.


Answer the question. Are these saying something different, or what?






Why won't you answer?


You can keep repeating the same thing over and over, but it won't change the fact that you are WRONG deflector

YOU can call it what you want. Officially, we both know it's 4-0 and now you can't answer a question because you have been proven WRONG!!! As long as you duck this post, you can't win!

Are you serious? I answered it and posted it above!!!! Like I said, it went right over your head!



It's you who didn't answer. You are so lost in this that YOU do not even know what you are saying!

EXPLAIN what the panel meant because this is what it appears you are saying but YOU let me know:
What you are taking from the panel's comments was that because it is not a threshold substance that there cannot be threshold type tests for non-threshold substances? I on the other hand believe that you can have threshold type tests for non-threshold substances!!! It really comes down to this at the end of the day.

You continue to say you cannot so that is why I think that is your answer. I'm not sure why you are sticking to this response but you let me know!


.

[travestyny]

Are you serious? I answered it and posted it above!!!! Like I said, it went right over your head!



It's you who didn't answer. You are so lost in this that YOU do not even know what you are saying!

EXPLAIN what the panel meant because this is what it appears you are saying but YOU let me know:
What you are taking from the panel's comments was that because it is not a threshold substance that there cannot be threshold type tests for non-threshold substances? I on the other hand believe that you can have threshold type tests for non-threshold substances!!! It really comes down to this at the end of the day.

You continue to say you cannot so that is why I think that is your answer. I'm not sure why you are sticking to this response but you let me know!


.

No you didn't answer it. You're still saying there is a threshold, right? Aren't you saying there is a threshold, for which above it, reveals non-human production of EPO?

EPO drug when it exceeds or
just human EPO if it does not exceed!

Is that in direct conflict with this? Yes or no?

there is no threshold above which it can be said there is non-human production of the substance

Are you going to answer?

[ADP02]

No you didn't answer it. You're still saying there is a threshold, right? Aren't you saying there is a threshold, for which above it, reveals non-human production of EPO?





Is that in direct conflict with this? Yes or no?



Are you going to answer?

Yes I responded!!!!


I even gave you an example.


If the test results are above the threshold then that gives indication that the athlete used EPO drug while if it is under the threshold the indication is that the athlete did not use EPO drug.

Why is it so hard for you to understand? That is a test BUT that does not mean that there is not another criteria that can conflict with the threshold test. That is what the panel is telling YOU, that is what I am telling YOU.

You were and still are too stuck on Threshold Substances! That is your problem. You cannot seem to see past that. That is your problem!

-----
Your problem is that you are stuck on this type of a test: Substance X was found in the urine samples.
In sample A, there was 40 ng/ml. This means that substance X came from human origin only since the threshold is 50 ng/ml

In sample B, there was 90 ng/ml. This means that it exceeded the threshold and the indication is that substance X came from human + drug in origin BUT it is the same substance X.
------

With EPO for example, it doesn't work that way for a number of reasons.
For one, rEPO is not found in the human body. That is, any amount of rEPO will be enough to indicate a positive test result for rEPO.
Number 2 is that there are several test criteria.
Number 3 is that one of the tests is a RATIO test to indicate if there is rEPO or there is no indication of rEPO. That is a threshold type test. YES!!!!

YOU ARE STUCK!!!!



It doesn't need to be a threshold substance to have a threshold type test. Even for non-threshold substances, there can be threshold type tests involved. The panel is stating this but you are having a hard time understanding this. I am not sure why.

YOU MISENTERPRETED ALL OF THIS!!!

Again, the way you are saying, is that threshold substances only can have a threshold type test.

YOU ARE WRONG!!!



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