Does defeat really make you stronger?

[Isaac Hunt]

Does defeat really make you stronger? Is it a blessing in disguise as Amir Khan says? It seems to me that after a defeat a fighter tends to lose something. Good examples of this are Kelly Pavlik,John The Beast Mugabe,Meldrik Taylor,Donald Curry. Getting beaten did them no good at all.
How does losing do you a favor and make you stronger? Or is it just BS just to sugar coat a disaster. What are your thoughts on this subject?

[Ray Corso]

Smarter!! If your smart to begin with. Boxing is adjusting to your opponent if he's already adjusted to you! Game of chess with consequences sums it up perfectly! If your smart and your trainer has experience your gym time gets very selective as to what your needing to fix or simply work on. The fighters that have overwhelming offenses do great until they met someone who has an answer (Tyson vs Holyfeild) is a good comparison. Tyson had no answers!
Then never made adjustments after that encounter either.
A defeat at the hands of a quality competitor is only a lose when you do nothing to fix a weakness that got you in trouble! The best fighters ever have defeats on their records, its tuff to be on top of your game every time out. Some times you face a guy that simply earns it! Ray

[taansend]

It all depends on the individual.

[New England]

Smarter!! If your smart to begin with. Boxing is adjusting to your opponent if he's already adjusted to you! Game of chess with consequences sums it up perfectly! If your smart and your trainer has experience your gym time gets very selective as to what your needing to fix or simply work on. The fighters that have overwhelming offenses do great until they met someone who has an answer (Tyson vs Holyfeild) is a good comparison. Tyson had no answers!
Then never made adjustments after that encounter either.
A defeat at the hands of a quality competitor is only a lose when you do nothing to fix a weakness that got you in trouble! The best fighters ever have defeats on their records, its tuff to be on top of your game every time out. Some times you face a guy that simply earns it! Ray

not if you take enough of a beating


an extended beating is never good for a fighter's career. you don't learn anything but how to get your ass kicked, and what it looks like when your brain takes a beating for 12 rounds.



a loss can help a young fighter realize that he still requires improvements. it might even show him what those improvements are.

but a serious knockout loss or an extended beating almost always spells the begginning of the end of a career. very few fighters have gone on to do anything great after a brutal loss. only the greatest of the great can come back from that (duran after hearns, louis after schmelling, etc)

[Ray Corso]

Did I say anything about a "beating"? I've never had a fighter while I was in the corner take a beating!! Their not taking a beating when I'm in the corner!!
Why do you reference to my post and make a comment about a beating off of my words? When do you see "beatings" in the ring now a days?
Where do you draw your opinions from, experience or forum posts & threads?
Your avitar says New England, I'm from New England what gym are you out of? Whats your home town? Where did you box? Dunbar Club in Hartford or Springfield? Petronelli's or Rocky's club in Boston Mass.??? Where? Who? How?
.......................or ya just yakin' Ray!

[taansend]

but a serious knockout loss or an extended beating almost always spells the begginning of the end of a career. very few fighters have gone on to do anything great after a brutal loss. only the greatest of the great can come back from that (duran after hearns, louis after schmelling, etc)

Benn after Watson AND Eubank.

Khan after Prescott.

Buster Douglas after Bey, White & Tucker.

Humberto Gonzalez after Pascua & Carbajal.

Pacquiao after Torrecampo & Singsurat.

Wlad after Purrity, Sanders & Brewster.

Martinez after Mayorga.

I could go on but the Man Utd Tottenham game has just exploded.

[codey]

A loss definitely makes you wiser. helps you learn from your mistakes.

[Isaac Hunt]

not if you take enough of a beating


an extended beating is never good for a fighter's career. you don't learn anything but how to get your ass kicked, and what it looks like when your brain takes a beating for 12 rounds.



a loss can help a young fighter realize that he still requires improvements. it might even show him what those improvements are.

but a serious knockout loss or an extended beating almost always spells the begginning of the end of a career. very few fighters have gone on to do anything great after a brutal loss. only the greatest of the great can come back from that (duran after hearns, louis after schmelling, etc)

You have brought in a different dynamic into the debate and made a very good point. The degree of defeat has an impact on how a fighter can come back but a brutal beating seems a no no as far as coming back stronger.

[elgranluchadore]

wlad is the first one that comes to mind he's gotten so much better and looks unbeatable at the moment
jorge arce after carbajal
vazquez after the 2nd larios fight
how about mathysse? hes looking even better now

[Isaac Hunt]

Smarter!! If your smart to begin with. Boxing is adjusting to your opponent if he's already adjusted to you! Game of chess with consequences sums it up perfectly! If your smart and your trainer has experience your gym time gets very selective as to what your needing to fix or simply work on. The fighters that have overwhelming offenses do great until they met someone who has an answer (Tyson vs Holyfeild) is a good comparison. Tyson had no answers!
Then never made adjustments after that encounter either.
A defeat at the hands of a quality competitor is only a lose when you do nothing to fix a weakness that got you in trouble! The best fighters ever have defeats on their records, its tuff to be on top of your game every time out. Some times you face a guy that simply earns it! Ray

This is a really good post because it EXPLAINS why a defeat can be used to show up a defect in the losing fighter's game that can be worked and improved on. rather than just a throwaway comment that defeat makes you stronger.
The point about the brutal beating doing you no good is also valid. The nature of the defeat has a huge bearing on the ability to improve and come back. Froch seems to have improved after his loss to Ward. The bottom line was that Ward is a lot better than Froch and whatever Froch did Ward would have beaten him but Froch learned something and has come back as a better fighter.