whats your all time greatest 10 fighters

[K-DOGG]

Why, of course...There's great fighters from any & all generations, no question, although I do have a personal tendency to struggle with rating the most recent generation of fighters in a historical context just because they're so fresh in my memory and are still fighting. Kind of a "gotta be in the past before it's a part of history" attitude thing with me, I guess, whether that's right or wrong...

After they finally retire, give me a few years on the likes of Jones, Hopkins, De La Hoya, Mayweather, etc., etc., and I'll personally be able to get a better handle on where those guys fit in historically, and what legacy(s) they are likely going to leave for future generations.

Yeah, I'm kind of the same way; but I know Jones's best days are long gone, so I thought I'd try to place him....though, he may be too "fresh on my mind" to do in accurately at this point, in all honesty

[SABBATH]

Yeah, I'm kind of the same way; but I know Jones's best days are long gone, so I thought I'd try to place him....though, he may be too "fresh on my mind" to do in accurately at this point, in all honesty

The modern fighter is able to be scrutinized under a microscope due to existing video footage and the instant availability (internet) while many of the older fighters have little film existing and so we often take their accomplishments at face value and support it with contemporary writings.

If guys like James Toney and Roy Jones fought in an era (say early 1900's) that had little available film footage there is the probability that they would be confirmed P4P ATG based on their accomplishments of title wins at different weights etc...On paper, the blown up middleweight Toney scoring a KO over Evander Holyfield a guy that warred and stood up to the punches of Foreman, Lewis, Tyson and Bowe would no doubt have granted him legendary status. Even his chin and defence would be legendary, especially given the fact that fighting at an advanced age as a heavyweight he has never been dominated or even dropped.

Contemporary writings especially those of Roy Jones at his peak would both confirm and substantiate his ATG'ness. What if we only had one fight of each guy available say Toney-Barkley or Jones-Hill and in large part based our opinions on that lone available footage supported by contemporary writings and in the ring accomplishments?

[K-DOGG]

The modern fighter is able to be scrutinized under a microscope due to existing video footage and the instant availability (internet) while many of the older fighters have little film existing and so we often take their accomplishments at face value and support it with contemporary writings.

If guys like James Toney and Roy Jones fought in an era (say early 1900's) that had little available film footage there is the probability that they would be confirmed P4P ATG based on their accomplishments of title wins at different weights etc...On paper, the blown up middleweight Toney scoring a KO over Evander Holyfield a guy that warred and stood up to the punches of Foreman, Lewis, Tyson and Bowe would no doubt have granted him legendary status. Even his chin and defence would be legendary, especially given the fact that fighting at an advanced age as a heavyweight he has never been dominated or even dropped.

Contemporary writings especially those of Roy Jones at his peak would both confirm and substantiate his ATG'ness. What if we only had one fight of each guy available say Toney-Barkley or Jones-Hill and in large part based our opinions on that lone available footage supported by contemporary writings and in the ring accomplishments?

Great point, my friend. Great Point. Props.

[BKM-]

I gave up on making Top 10 greatest fighters lists. You basicely learn about other fighters every day, and if i made a list like this, i would feel silly because there would be too many fighters left out who i dont know anything about, but would consider if i did research.

[Yogi]

If guys like James Toney and Roy Jones fought in an era (say early 1900's) that had little available film footage there is the probability that they would be confirmed P4P ATG based on their accomplishments of title wins at different weights etc...

If Toney & Jones fought in the early 1900's then they don't have the accomplishments of the title wins they do have in today's game (for obvious reasons), and if I could go back in time with them on their journey, I'd take a grand with me that says neither of them win even a single world title fight back in those days and I'd like my chances.

[K-DOGG]

If Toney & Jones fought in the early 1900's then they don't have the accomplishments of the title wins they do have in today's game (for obvious reasons), and if I could go back in time with them on their journey, I'd take a grand with me that says neither of them win even a single world title fight back in those days and I'd like my chances.

Ouch! Yogi comes out swinging!!

LOL!!!!!

[SABBATH]

If Toney & Jones fought in the early 1900's then they don't have the accomplishments of the title wins they do have in today's game (for obvious reasons), and if I could go back in time with them on their journey, I'd take a grand with me that says neither of them win even a single world title fight back in those days and I'd like my chances.

"On paper, the blown up middleweight Toney scoring a KO over Evander Holyfield a guy that warred and stood up to the punches of Foreman, Lewis, Tyson and Bowe would no doubt have granted him legendary status. Even his chin and defence would be legendary, especially given the fact that fighting at an advanced age as a heavyweight he has never been dominated or even dropped."

Please note that I used the words "on paper" on assesing these fighters. In other words taking his win over Holyfield at face value as well as titles at multi-weights.

I'm no Toney or Jones fan in particular however since I did say the early 1900's I think Jones or Toney have more than a decent chance against turn of the century champions like middleweight Billy Papke, light heavyweight Jack O'Brien or heavyweights like Tommy Burns or Marvin Hart, all fighters who held world titles during that era.

Of course I would then be entering the abyss of hypotheticals....

[Yogi]

I'm no Toney or Jones fan in particular however since I did say the early 1900's I think Jones or Toney have more than a decent chance against turn of the century champions like middleweight Billy Papke, light heavyweight Jack O'Brien or heavyweights like Tommy Burns or Marvin Hart, all fighters who held world titles during that era.

Yeah maybe...but then again I'd certainly give Langford a "decent" chance against them guys, as well. Ditto for guys like Kid Norfolk, Joe Jeannette, Sam McVey, Jeff Clark, and the other top black fighters that Jones & Toney (unless they're physically weak & starving, they likely end up above the middleweight limit in a time of same day/ringside weigh-ins if going by their actual in-ring fighting weight) are likely going to have to fight and on multiple occasions.

[SABBATH]

Yeah maybe...but then again I'd certainly give Langford a "decent" chance against them guys, as well. Ditto for guys like Kid Norfolk, Joe Jeannette, Sam McVey, Jeff Clark, and the other top black fighters that Jones & Toney (unless they're physically weak & starving, they likely end up above the middleweight limit in a time of same day/ringside weigh-ins if going by their actual in-ring fighting weight) are likely going to have to fight and on multiple occasions.

Hence the problem with hypotheticals when dealing with fighters of that era vs modern fighters. Because of the availabilty and accessabilty to video I can pick apart and dissect the fighting styles of modern fighters like Tyson, Jones, Toney etc....Kid Norfolk? Can't say I've seen him fight, so I don't know squat about his balance, stance, handspeed, jab, combination punching, punching technique, defence, in-fighting ability, bodypunching or in the ring tendencies and habits. All I really have to go on is his record, reputation and subjective newspaper accounts of that era. Ditto for his competition.

Now the problem with newspaper accounts of that era is that the writer was often reporting on a fight that he only saw once (if at all) and knew the reader likely had not seen nor would ever see it, so I imagine a less than completely accurate portrayal of some of these fights were often presented. Sports writers were also in the business of selling papers and their metaphoric imagery inducing depictions of fights and the fighters themselves as "dark dusky ***els" sprinkled with generous doses of similies "he moved in the ring like a hungry jungle cat" are laughable by today's standards not to mention racist.

I have a photocopied newspaper from 1910 the day after the Battle of The Century with a round by round description of Johnson-Jeffries which has notable inaccuracies when you compare it with the actual film. I'm sure it was quite common.

[phallus]

The modern fighter is able to be scrutinized under a microscope due to existing video footage and the instant availability (internet) while many of the older fighters have little film existing and so we often take their accomplishments at face value and support it with contemporary writings.

If guys like James Toney and Roy Jones fought in an era (say early 1900's) that had little available film footage there is the probability that they would be confirmed P4P ATG based on their accomplishments of title wins at different weights etc...On paper, the blown up middleweight Toney scoring a KO over Evander Holyfield a guy that warred and stood up to the punches of Foreman, Lewis, Tyson and Bowe would no doubt have granted him legendary status. Even his chin and defence would be legendary, especially given the fact that fighting at an advanced age as a heavyweight he has never been dominated or even dropped.

Contemporary writings especially those of Roy Jones at his peak would both confirm and substantiate his ATG'ness. What if we only had one fight of each guy available say Toney-Barkley or Jones-Hill and in large part based our opinions on that lone available footage supported by contemporary writings and in the ring accomplishments?

wow, great post... i'd like to buy u a beer sometime, eh