What were Jack Johnson’s best wins?

[Marchegiano]

I laid down my picks for Dempsey. Dempsey's fans have no time to lay down picks for Johnson, just criticism.

It's fine to criticize boys but when you've brought nothing else you're about useless in this thread.

[Dr. Z]

Good post.

Jack Johnson's best wins were over much smaller fighters who were either natural middleweights or had less than ten or twenty fights. He typically had a distinct size advantage.

The 3x he fought McVea, Sam had less than ten fights, yet Johnson gets a lot of credit for beating him. First time he fought Jeannette, Joe was 0-3, and he fought him 6x with less than twenty fights to his name. The last outing they had was a draw when Jeannette finally began to hit his stride and figure him out. Both he and McVea were denied a title shots once they gained more experience. Then there was MW Ketchel, old Jeffries, and no-hopers Tony Ross, Al Kaufman and the long string of never-was opponents after the Willard KO loss.

Very similar advantages were relevant to Wills success too. Harry Wills towered over most of his opponents at nearly 6'3" and 220+. He had physical advantages over most of his opponents who he could smother, clinch, and wrestle his way to victory. A 5'7" Langford couldn't overcome the size difference despite being a superior boxer. Jeannette and McVea were each closer to LHW at 5'10" 180. Fought no-hoper Jack Thompson 9x--a guy with a career record of 19-16-5. Bill Tate was a Dempsey sparring partner who he fought 5x, and Battling Jim Johnson 3x...the only black man to get a title shot from Jack Johnson, was 5'9" and not much more than a journeyman.

^^^ This.

Johnson didn't alway shine vs smaller men. Ketchel hurt him and those at ringside said Johnson still dazzled after he had won.

Ross was a bad pick, who had only won 1 of his last 8 matches and was already stopped twice. Yet the journeyman who didn't deserve this match had a shining moment,

" In the fourth round, Ross landed his only telling blow of the fight, a vicious right hand that shook Johnson "

Not very good, short ( 5'9" tall ), fat and white, Ross wasn't even good enough to be called a white hope.

[GhostofDempsey]

I laid down my picks for Dempsey. Dempsey's fans have no time to lay down picks for Johnson, just criticism.

It's fine to criticize boys but when you've brought nothing else you're about useless in this thread.

You got ass hurt that so many all time greats chose Dempsey over Marciano, so much so that you couldn’t be bothered to read an entire post about it, but instead insisted it was all just bullshyt.

Jack Johnson’s best wins were all against much smaller fighters. Think about it. Ketchel and Langford were his best wins. Each were closer to middleweights when they fought him and Langford was still green.

That would be like Holyfield or Holmes fighting Hagler and then boasting about it as a great win. Ali doesn’t even get credit for beating Foster who was a large LHW, imagine if he fought MWs. Imagine if any other 200+ pound HW made a career of beating middleweights, old washed former champs and a string of great white no-hopers?

[Marchegiano]

You got ass hurt that so many all time greats chose Dempsey over Marciano, so much so that you couldn’t be bothered to read an entire post about it, but instead insisted it was all just bullshyt.

Jack Johnson’s best wins were all against much smaller fighters. Think about it. Ketchel and Langford were his best wins. Each were closer to middleweights when they fought him and Langford was still green.

That would be like Holyfield or Holmes fighting Hagler and then boasting about it as a great win. Ali doesn’t even get credit for beating Foster who was a large LHW, imagine if he fought MWs. Imagine if any other 200+ pound HW made a career of beating middleweights, old washed former champs and a string of great white no-hopers?

if you feel you've walked from that thread looking good more power to you.

From where I sit I didn't have to do the schooling. You got classed by possibly the most respectable and knowledgeable guy here. If you still feel good about that, cool bud, but when it comes to peer review there is none I hold higher than Bundana here.


Also, last I knew that thread ended with me asking you for source while you pansy ass and *****foot around the subject just as you have here when I ask for a list of names.

Sources? Names? Nah, Ghost feels good anyway but don't think he's a dunce doe.

[Dr. Z]

You got ass hurt that so many all time greats chose Dempsey over Marciano, so much so that you couldn’t be bothered to read an entire post about it, but instead insisted it was all just bullshyt.

Jack Johnson’s best wins were all against much smaller fighters. Think about it. Ketchel and Langford were his best wins. Each were closer to middleweights when they fought him and Langford was still green.

That would be like Holyfield or Holmes fighting Hagler and then boasting about it as a great win. Ali doesn’t even get credit for beating Foster who was a large LHW, imagine if he fought MWs. Imagine if any other 200+ pound HW made a career of beating middleweights, old washed former champs and a string of great white no-hopers?

I agree with much of what you wrote. Johnson however did beat Ed Martin who stood about 6'5" tall. Martin who looks decent on film was 200 pounds. A string bean type that was KO'd 6 times inside 4 round. His long reach gave Johnson some trouble and Johnson came later to win on points. Johnson also KO'd him. Martin could not take it to the head or body.

[GhostofDempsey]

I agree with much of what you wrote. Johnson however did beat Ed Martin who stood about 6'5" tall. Martin who looks decent on film was 200 pounds. A string bean type that was KO'd 6 times inside 4 round. His long reach gave Johnson some trouble and Johnson came later to win on points. Johnson also KO'd him. Martin could not take it to the head or body.

Yes, there was some big opponents around then, but many of them were lacking in skill. If you're talking about "Denver Ed Martin", he was closer to 6'3", and not very skilled. Of his 35 or so fights he was KO'd 8 times.

[GhostofDempsey]

if you feel you've walked from that thread looking good more power to you.

From where I sit I didn't have to do the schooling. You got classed by possibly the most respectable and knowledgeable guy here. If you still feel good about that, cool bud, but when it comes to peer review there is none I hold higher than Bundana here.


Also, last I knew that thread ended with me asking you for source while you pansy ass and *****foot around the subject just as you have here when I ask for a list of names.

Sources? Names? Nah, Ghost feels good anyway but don't think he's a dunce doe.

Bundana doesn't know the difference between literal and figurative, where Sharkey's comments regarding Dempsey's power were symbolic of his reputation, he didn't mean he actually broke someone's hip or shoulder with a punch. It's unfortunate that needs to be pointed out to anyone. Bundana is one of those guys who likes to claim he "knows someone who knows someone who was there", which offers little in the way of credibility. I can tell some unverifiable stories too but who will vouch for them? You chose his opinion because it aligns with yours, no surprise there.

I don't owe you any sources or additional info when you already admitted you didn't bother to read the initial post I made that included names and sources. You're wasting my time and behaving like a teenaged clown. Again, not surprised given your post history. Don't you have some doctors and nurses to beat on tough guy? LOL.

[Marchegiano]

Bundana doesn't know the difference between literal and figurative, where Sharkey's comments regarding Dempsey's power were symbolic of his reputation, he didn't mean he actually broke someone's hip or shoulder with a punch. It's unfortunate that needs to be pointed out to anyone. Bundana is one of those guys who likes to claim he "knows someone who knows someone who was there", which offers little in the way of credibility. I can tell some unverifiable stories too but who will vouch for them? You chose his opinion because it aligns with yours, no surprise there.

I don't owe you any sources or additional info when you already admitted you didn't bother to read the initial post I made that included names and sources. You're wasting my time and behaving like a teenaged clown. Again, not surprised given your post history. Don't you have some doctors and nurses to beat on tough guy? LOL.

Soon as I realized all you have to talk about is Bun and probably myself too and maybe some others like trav I stopped reading.

Good day to you sir, ya useless monkey that ya're

[GhostofDempsey]

I figured this would be a very short thread. Not a lot of great wins to discuss here.

[Dr. Z]

Yes, there was some big opponents around then, but many of them were lacking in skill. If you're talking about "Denver Ed Martin", he was closer to 6'3", and not very skilled. Of his 35 or so fights he was KO'd 8 times.

I checked. Box Rec lists him at 6'3" 1/4, with an 80.5 " reach. Impressive for his time. He also had quick feet and a decent jab.

You can see Denver Ed on film, sparring with Ruhlin.

Agreed he could not take a punch well at all.

https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/039956