Would prime Holmes crack the top 10 in the 90s or always be stuck at #11

[uncle ben]

Tyson would always trouble Holmes. He was very fast and imposing. Holmes liked to dictate range and pace, there's no hope of him doing so against Tyson. And while Holmes was good defnesively, he wasn't a Pep. He regularly took big shots - even when he was trying to fight safe.

And I just can't pick him to beat Lewis. It's a shame we didn't see a series of Norton-Holmes. The one fight was great, but it created more questions than it answered. Norton shot himself in the foot, trying to make Holmes work in the early rounds. With just the one adjustment (getting to work from the opening bell) Norton might have avenged that loss. That's probably the best win/name on Holmes' record.

Lewis was a lot more foreboding than Norton. His offense was every bit as good/better than Shavers and Cooney's. And because Holmes can't really hurt Lewis, I don't see Lewis being terribly intimidated. We saw lesser men than Holmes (Mercer and Holyfield) make it competitive with Lewis, but I really don't think the best Lewis drops a loss to Holmes. Of course, Holmes is probably the division's greatest overachiever, and Lewis the greatest underachiever.








Holmes hit harder than Ali. But then a again Ali hit like a bi.tch

Holmes also was the one who showed more consistency and determination.

That point is a little hard to argue, since Ali fought like a lion in so many fights to gut out the win. But Ali definitely was the more physically gifted fighter. He was waaay faster, bigger and stronger. He also came of age in a much more forgiving era. The best opponent he met in the 1960's was George Chuvalo.

Holmes was more technically sound, and carried a heftier punch. LOok at his jab, his uppercut, even his right hand.

But I would agree, he lacks the physical tools the more famous champions have possessed. That's why he never attracted the same attention other champions have.

I wouldn't say that Holyfield was a "lesser" fighter than Holmes, TBH. Also, Ali wasn't significantly, if at all, bigger, faster and stronger than Holmes.

[Incapable]

If Holmes turns pro in the early 90 s, he'd beat Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson but lose to Lewis. Put it this way, he won't get to 49-0.

[uncle ben]

If Holmes turns pro in the early 90 s, he'd beat Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson but lose to Lewis. Put it this way, he won't get to 49-0.

Having an early 90s Tyson and a prime Bowe and a prime Holyfield as victims on your resume would put you in the running to be the GOAT @ heavyweight.

[Incapable]

Having an early 90s Tyson and a prime Bowe and a prime Holyfield as victims on your resume would put you in the running to be the GOAT @ heavyweight.

Certainly would! I rate him very highly as it is, with a win over those his resume goes flying high.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I wouldn't say that Holyfield was a "lesser" fighter than Holmes, TBH. Also, Ali wasn't significantly, if at all, bigger, faster and stronger than Holmes.

Holmes had a penchant for mixing up when he didn't need to. I don't think he was trying to prove anything, per se. I think he just had a lot of fire in his belly.

Holyfield, though, took it too far almost always settling into brawls. And I kinda suspect that he really was trying to prove something. Especially against Bowe.

But when Bowe did mix it up, he almost always got the better of it. Not so with Holyfield.

Holyfield in the rematch w/ Bower showed he could box. But he never put on the kinda performance Holmes did. Holmes was on a different level.The only think Holyfield might have had over him was stamina.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Having an early 90s Tyson and a prime Bowe and a prime Holyfield as victims on your resume would put you in the running to be the GOAT @ heavyweight.

I agree. He can take some losses against those guys. It would all come out in the wash.

Ali took losses against Frazier and Norton. People kinda overlook/forget that. They view him for the entirety of his work.