Hearns vs. Leonard at 154

[Longhaul]

Finally some common sense. I mean are people even rewatching this fight or sticking to hearsay? Leonard beat the absolute piss out of Hearns in that fight for several moments, infinitately more sifnificant than those flash knockdowns. And that was a very past prime Leonard after many layoffs and rehab programs from his substance abuse addictions.

Again, Leonard was always a class above Hearns and would always beat him.

Rewatched fight and had it closer than I thought live 113-112.clancy and hagler had Hearns winning when the sold out crowd heard the card in favor of Leonard it was booing just like I remember and when it was called a draw they were booing like hell.During the interview you can hear the crowd start chanting bullsh&t bulls&t .The first knockdown Leonard was hurt with a right hand right before he was hit on top of the head.Some slip look at his face when he was getting up .I will take my opinion as well as Clancy’s and hagler over yours and bones.There wAs 1:43 left in round 5 when Hearns got hurt he held on and started to throwback a little as SRL got arm weary.Leonard wAs told straight to his he lost with the crowd chanting bullsh&t.Leonard came on strong in the 12th again Hearns held on and was firing back at times.Leonard was quoted by more than one publication a day or so after the fight saying Hearns won the fight.So your argument is with 15,000 fans chanting bullsh&t which I remember and Gil Clancy and Marvin Hagler and SRL himself.Dont rewrite history study it.

[Longhaul]

This is about the second fight only people who have passion for fighters tend to rewrite history.If it wAs me on Leonard’s side and I heard 15k booing and yelling bull**** People like Gil Clancy and haglers comments as well as all the other big names who had Hearns winning including SRL himself I might take a step back.Crap like it was a slip or he hurt Hearns at the end of round so he couldn’t get the ko all bs.Thats passion playing with your head 15k people can’t be wrong.

[Longhaul]

You should stop telling me to study when you can barely put together a coherent english sentence, buddy.

It seems like your entire argument is based on Leonard's comments about the fight, which btw you have yet to post a source and specific quotes so that should be your next task here.

In any event that is not how I score fights, I don't base it on the words of the fighters because 1-They don't score the fights, they're actually fighting and sometimes they might feel like they lost because of feelings of a disappointing performance, when in reality they won more rounds and won that fight. And 2-They might be saying things to pay respect or have other agenda's.

So go ahead and post those quotes and while you're at it, re-watch Leonard beat the everloving piss out of Hearns at several moments in the fight and then come back here with a straight face and tell me the flash knockdowns were more significant than the moments where old, broken down Leonard nearly TKO's Hearns before the bells saved him.

Where old broken down Leonard going into the fight broken down Hearns was coming off the Kinchen fight and everybody before the fight including my self were commenting on Hearns legs giving out in the fight.On the telecast they keep saying they think Hearns is done and his legs are gone.I admit it’s only my opinion and the 15k boing and chanting bulls&t and hagler Clancy opinions don’t mean as much as yours.You want fact finding watch the fight again with sound and replays.You remind of a guy I knew who at least five of us saw his old lady blowing a guy in the parking lot and wouldn’t believe us until he talked to her.She didn’t do it he said because I asked her.Do your own fact check watch the fight and study on your own .

[Rusty Tromboni]

Rewatched fight and had it closer than I thought live 113-112.clancy and hagler had Hearns winning when the sold out crowd heard the card in favor of Leonard it was booing just like I remember and when it was called a draw they were booing like hell.During the interview you can hear the crowd start chanting bullsh&t bulls&t .The first knockdown Leonard was hurt with a right hand right before he was hit on top of the head.Some slip look at his face when he was getting up .I will take my opinion as well as Clancy’s and hagler over yours and bones.There wAs 1:43 left in round 5 when Hearns got hurt he held on and started to throwback a little as SRL got arm weary.Leonard wAs told straight to his he lost with the crowd chanting bullsh&t.Leonard came on strong in the 12th again Hearns held on and was firing back at times.Leonard was quoted by more than one publication a day or so after the fight saying Hearns won the fight.So your argument is with 15,000 fans chanting bullsh&t which I remember and Gil Clancy and Marvin Hagler and SRL himself.Dont rewrite history study it.

1) I find it ironic that you're accusing a pro-Leonard bias of obfuscating reality, but then mention Hagler picking Hearns the winner. Hagler - the guy who hates Leonard so much he was cheering for Hearns (whom he KO'd in less than 4 rounds) during the broadcast. You really think that suits your case?

2a) Speaking to your greater point: don't you think many people wanted TOMMY to win?

Ray had been the MEDIA darling, but for that exact reason he got in Boxing fans' crawl. Duran beating Leonard was huge... but maybe part of its historic poignancy is that an animal beat a pretty boy. The Hagler and Hearns are far from the most controversial decisions in Boxing History. But they stand out as such because of what they mean to people in terms of life itself: Hagler and Hearns represent the blue-collar, working man; violent dudes, not Dapper Dans with a sliver spoon in their mouth. Seeing them lose to Leonard was going to be salt in the wounds.

Leonard was no Ali or Mayweather. Those guys tried to make themselves hateable. But Hollywood Ray Leonard wound up with almost the same vitriol by many for trying too hard to be liked, ironically.

2b)
I think the world of Tommy Hearns. He was a tremendous fighter. He had physical talents, Boxing acumen, and the heart of a warrior. I rank him over Hagler P4P. In fact, I rank him over a lot of fighters that most people wouldn't. The point is, I am pretty pro-hearns. That's why I feel I can be critical here.

Most folks (rightly) believe the disparity between the big 4 isn't as great as the record shows. They want to see more parity. Hearns being unable to avenge his loss to Leonard, particularly on the former's own turf (the Mw/SMw division), is seen as an injustice.
They want it to be: Duran beat Leonard, Leonard beat Hagler, Hagler destroyed Hearns, Duran almost beat Hagler, Hearns destroyed Duran, Leonard beat Hagler, Leonard and Hearns (who both beat Benitez) split the difference by winning in their respective weight classes.
See how there's a nice balance to that, and everyone seems to get an equal share of the glory?

Stating that Ray is better at Tommy even at Tommy's ideal weight destroys that house of cards.

3) True or False:
Tommy Hearns would NOT survive 3 more rounds?
Ray had him MORE heart by the end of the 12th in the rematch than he did in the first fight?
Hearns was worse for the wear by the end of the fight?

4) If you believe that Hearns was fresher back at jr Mw, and THAT is the reason he would have beaten Leonard if the rematch had taken place there, you should just stick w/ that argument. It's actually an interesting one that you might make work.

Whether you had Hearns winning or not, the rematch that DID happen was too close to not be controversial; it's just not worth bringing up and muddling your argument.

[Longhaul]

1) I find it ironic that you're accusing a pro-Leonard bias of obfuscating reality, but then mention Hagler picking Hearns the winner. Hagler - the guy who hates Leonard so much he was cheering for Hearns (whom he KO'd in less than 4 rounds) during the broadcast. You really think that suits your case?

2a) Speaking to your greater point: don't you think many people wanted TOMMY to win?

Ray had been the MEDIA darling, but for that exact reason he got in Boxing fans' crawl. Duran beating Leonard was huge... but maybe part of its historic poignancy is that an animal beat a pretty boy. The Hagler and Hearns are far from the most controversial decisions in Boxing History. But they stand out as such because of what they mean to people in terms of life itself: Hagler and Hearns represent the blue-collar, working man; violent dudes, not Dapper Dans with a sliver spoon in their mouth. Seeing them lose to Leonard was going to be salt in the wounds.

Leonard was no Ali or Mayweather. Those guys tried to make themselves hateable. But Hollywood Ray Leonard wound up with almost the same vitriol by many for trying too hard to be liked, ironically.

2b)
I think the world of Tommy Hearns. He was a tremendous fighter. He had physical talents, Boxing acumen, and the heart of a warrior. I rank him over Hagler P4P. In fact, I rank him over a lot of fighters that most people wouldn't. The point is, I am pretty pro-hearns. That's why I feel I can be critical here.

Most folks (rightly) believe the disparity between the big 4 isn't as great as the record shows. They want to see more parity. Hearns being unable to avenge his loss to Leonard, particularly on the former's own turf (the Mw/SMw division), is seen as an injustice.
They want it to be: Duran beat Leonard, Leonard beat Hagler, Hagler destroyed Hearns, Duran almost beat Hagler, Hearns destroyed Duran, Leonard beat Hagler, Leonard and Hearns (who both beat Benitez) split the difference by winning in their respective weight classes.
See how there's a nice balance to that, and everyone seems to get an equal share of the glory?

Stating that Ray is better at Tommy even at Tommy's ideal weight destroys that house of cards.

3) True or False:
Tommy Hearns would NOT survive 3 more rounds?
Ray had him MORE heart by the end of the 12th in the rematch than he did in the first fight?
Hearns was worse for the wear by the end of the fight?

4) If you believe that Hearns was fresher back at jr Mw, and THAT is the reason he would have beaten Leonard if the rematch had taken place there, you should just stick w/ that argument. It's actually an interesting one that you might make work.

Whether you had Hearns winning or not, the rematch that DID happen was too close to not be controversial; it's just not worth bringing up and muddling your argument.

Listen knuckleheads like you bring all this ****** **** up about a fight that has no bearing on the scorecards.If someone who wanted to watch some good rivalry fights from days gone by would skip this series because guys like you make it like Leonard completely dominated two one sided fights .All I responded was first fight was great Leonard was down and needed a ko to win .Second fight I was at and live and felt Leonard lost and I stated I believe the crowd was booing.Trash hagler he was biased then what about Clancy.All I ever was stating was my opinion right or wrong Hearns won.15k thought so to.I was just saying two great fights and when I make some good points you guys are crying people were against SRL the media didn’t love him some **** about 154 and other bull ****.You are another emotion based keyboard warrior.Im guilty of saying they had two great competitive action fights and I thought Hearns won the second fight .I don’t care if the media was mean to SRL or it should have been at154 ect.Never said Hearns legacy was better than Hearns you need to get SRL nuts off your chin he’s gone move on

[Longhaul]

By the way fights are scored round by round it doesn’t matter who looks fresher at the end of the fight is he standing at the end.We would have to go and rewrite history on fights with your logic.I could see at the end of the fight trying to figure in if fighter a was fresher but maybe he landed less punches and was knocked down but then again the media was mean to him and he won the first fight most of the fans thought he lost but this weight isn’t fair so let’s give him the nod.All this ****** **** that has nothing to do with scoring a fight

[Rusty Tromboni]

By the way fights are scored round by round it doesn’t matter who looks fresher at the end of the fight is he standing at the end.We would have to go and rewrite history on fights with your logic.I could see at the end of the fight trying to figure in if fighter a was fresher but maybe he landed less punches and was knocked down but then again the media was mean to him and he won the first fight most of the fans thought he lost but this weight isn’t fair so let’s give him the nod.All this ****** **** that has nothing to do with scoring a fight

Surrender accepted.

[BKM-]

Surrender accepted.

There wasn't a legit fight, though. This mushmouth's only arguments were this:

-Marvin Hagler said Leonard should have lost.
-Drunken casual fans in the crowd booed at the decision.
-And again, other people said the fight should have been scored for Hearns.

His only actual arguments for the fight itself, if you can even call it that, was that Leonard lost because he suffered flash knockdowns and then he ignores the several moments that Leonard beat Hearns up so badly that he was saved by the bell and other refs might have stopped the fight altogether.

[Rusty Tromboni]

There wasn't a legit fight, though. This mushmouth's only arguments were this:

-Marvin Hagler said Leonard should have lost.
-Drunken casual fans in the crowd booed at the decision.
-And again, other people said the fight should have been scored for Hearns.

His only actual arguments for the fight itself, if you can even call it that, was that Leonard lost because he suffered flash knockdowns and then he ignores the several moments that Leonard beat Hearns up so badly that he was saved by the bell and other refs might have stopped the fight altogether.

Yeah. He definitely just comes here to stir the pot. If my post(s) seemed to suggest Leonard breezed through Hearns both times, then he could have more directly questioned me on my position.

I would consider Leonard's wins over Hearns two of his best. In part because of what he had to overcome. But even if they were competitive, both fights proved Ray Leonard was the better man. I think that he feels the same as we do, but just wanted a point to argue.

[Longhaul]

Surrender accepted.

Rusty blowhard at it again.