1988 Mike Tyson vs 2001 Lennox Lewis

[Mugwump]

- -Bruno was handily beating up Lewis until he ran out of steam.

This is not true. Bruno was certainly giving Lewis problems - not least because he possessed one of the best jabs in the heavyweight division. But whilst Frank was getting several good licks in - it's not as though Lewis wasn't catching him with a few of his own. Lewis was always a careful fighter and he knew that to get involved in a brawl with an explosive puncher such as Bruno courted disaster. Like Floyd or any other elite fighter he tightened up his defence and limited his risks until he got the measure of his opponent. He also knew that it was certain Bruno couldn't sustain the pace at which he was fighting and would eventually gas out - as he did in the Witherspoon and Bonecrusher fights.

The invincible Lewis never existed. The invincible Tyson did, thus the difference in these parameters.

No version of Tyson was unbeatable. None.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Mugsy, Vitali took the Lewis fight on short notice, not vice versa.

Lewis had a full 8 week camp plus flew Manny to England the month before camp to establish a precamp routine for him to follow. He stated he never felt better and planned 5 more fights before retirement.

The first McCall fight didn't last 2 rds, not exactly a grueling knockdown, drag out affair. The first Rahman fight was literally a 5 rd stroll in the park jab fest for Lewis. Altitude and training had no say so in the fight. After suckering Louis for 5 Rds, Rahman suddenly jumped in to drop him for the ten count.

Why Lewis fans make up faerie tales is a separate topic for discussion.

[QueensburyRules]

This is not true. Bruno was certainly giving Lewis problems - not least because he possessed one of the best jabs in the heavyweight division. But whilst Frank was getting several good licks in - it's not as though Lewis wasn't catching him with a few of his own. Lewis was always a careful fighter and he knew that to get involved in a brawl with an explosive puncher such as Bruno courted disaster. Like Floyd or any other elite fighter he tightened up his defence and limited his risks until he got the measure of his opponent. He also knew that it was certain Bruno couldn't sustain the pace at which he was fighting and would eventually gas out - as he did in the Witherspoon and Bonecrusher fights.



No version of Tyson was unbeatable. None.

- -only Tyson and Wlad ever unified 4 major belts previously in complete disarray.

During that phase they were the most dominant fighters ever seen save for Joe Louis, invincible just being used as an apt metaphor since all fighters are mortal and can be beat. And yeah, Lewis getting mullered by Bruno pretty bad in the beginning. Face it, your boy had lapses of mediocrity and a A+ Inferiority Complex that still hampers him to this day in his public duties.

[Mugwump]

- -Mugsy, Vitali took the Lewis fight on short notice, not vice versa.

Lewis had a full 8 week camp plus flew Manny to England the month before camp to establish a precamp routine for him to follow. He stated he never felt better and planned 5 more fights before retirement.

I don't recall mentioning who took what fight at how much notice. What I did say is that he looked out of shape (particularly in terms of weight - which had been slipping for a few years leading up to the bout) and lacking motivation. Which isn't surprising because who was there left to get motivated about? With the exception of Bowe (who was washed up) he'd achieved everything he'd set out to. The Klitschkos were never a priority at any point in his career. Sure, he could make a good chunk of money fighting them and a few of the other youngsters coming through. But none of them held the same kind of attraction that ... say ... a Holyfield or a Tyson did.

If I had a penny for each time a fighter made some statement about this or that which subsequently turned out to be bogus I'd be a very rich man. Indeed, I've lost count of the number of boxers who entered the ring with a spare tyre around their waist and subsequently stated they were "in great shape". I mean, what do you expect them to say ... "Well, I spent all eight weeks at training camp stuffing myself full of Dominos"?

The first McCall fight didn't last 2 rds, not exactly a grueling knockdown, drag out affair. The first Rahman fight was literally a 5 rd stroll in the park jab fest for Lewis. Altitude and training had no say so in the fight. After suckering Louis for 5 Rds, Rahman suddenly jumped in to drop him for the ten count.

Why Lewis fans make up faerie tales is a separate topic for discussion.

Are you having this discussion with me - or some other Mugwump who is talking about something entirely different?

Who mentioned anything about the number of rounds that were fought and at what pace? *I* said Lewis' two defeats were more the result of him not giving two dangerous opponents the respect they deserved rather than any perceived weakness in his chin. I underlined this argument by pointing out that Lewis had been hit as hard (or harder) by far better opponents and yet didn't go down.

And it should be remembered that following those defeats Lewis knuckled down and went about his business starching Rahman and giving McCall a mental breakdown.

[Mugwump]

- -only Tyson and Wlad ever unified 4 major belts previously in complete disarray.

I'd love to say Lewis WISHES he could have emerged in eras which were so critically devoid of talent but the truth is he wouldn't appreciate it. I mean, Wlad was so dominant he spent all of his career trying (and failing) to prove he was culturally significant and not "King of the Tomato Cans".

And yeah, Lewis getting mullered by Bruno pretty bad in the beginning. Face it, your boy had lapses of mediocrity and a A+ Inferiority Complex that still hampers him to this day in his public duties.

Lapses of mediocrity next to whom? A guy who couldn't close the deal against the awesome might of KEVIN McBRIDE? And the day Lewis lost to ROSS PURITTY would be the day he died of SHAME! ROFLMAO!!

[QueensburyRules]

- -King literally pulled McCall
Out of drug rehab the day before the Lewis rematch, ie untrained and mentally unfit.

You do like your little porkies don't you.

What, Lewis set a dozen new records for weight gains in his career? That's what big heavies do, and moreover, it's well established under 12 rd rules and modern scoring, extra weight is advantageous, the new normal.

[QueensburyRules]

I'd love to say Lewis WISHES he could have emerged in eras which were so critically devoid of talent but the truth is he wouldn't appreciate it. I mean, Wlad was so dominant he spent all of his career trying (and failing) to prove he was culturally significant and not "King of the Tomato Cans".



Lapses of mediocrity next to whom? A guy who couldn't close the deal against the awesome might of KEVIN McBRIDE? And the day Lewis lost to ROSS PURITTY would be the day he died of SHAME! ROFLMAO!!

Lewie had to repeat his Olympic Games to win his gold.

Wlad won his the first go and turned pro with an AMA trainer as a younger man. He was fought a dozen X in 11 months time and had no business in a 12 round title fight against a massively big strong pro who knew how to play American possum.

At that age Lewis was still in headgear an pillows fighting 3rounders. Wlad set some records, but not Lewie who never defended a unified title, in fact giving up all his titles.

His prerogative, yeah, but don't expect us to think him any more than what he was.

[ShoulderRoll]

This is a sidetrack from the main thread topic but Wlad's career was laughable next to Lennox's.

If you feel prime Tyson could beat 2001 Lewis then there's no question that he could knock out any version of Klitschko.

[QueensburyRules]

This is a sidetrack from the main thread topic but Wlad's career was laughable next to Lennox's.

If you feel prime Tyson could beat 2001 Lewis then there's no question that he could knock out any version of Klitschko.

- -the best Tyson and best Wlad are superior to Lewie.

In fact you can browse the archives and find a well received piece I did as LondonRingRules: Who beats the Klitschkos in the great pantheon. Mike was my # One possibility, but it sure ain't written in stone until Valhalla comes calling.

[uncle ben]

Tyson via KO.... he'd find Lewis chin like Rahman and McCall did. Lewis proved that he could be taken out by a single shot....very dangerous against a young Tyson. Tyson, on the other hand, had to receive a beating to be put away. If Lewis fought a safety first fight like Bonecrusher Smith, he could see the last bell but lose a UD. And Tyson was fast enough to hit Lewis when he wouldn't see it coming. That right hand he put Holmes on the deck with (the first one) would've kept Lewis there for a 10 count.