Who Could Roy Jones Not Have Beaten?

[robertzimmerman]

- -48-0 with a 25-0 title record and "lineal" LH titlist for the Fruitcakes to moan over, Darius came to publicly challenge Roy in the full fanfare of his last HBO defenses before their wheels both came off.

That's the only time Roy failed to answer a legit challenge.

I've already told you that this is nonsense.

Dariusz and his promoter wouldn't meet with HBO in 2001 to discuss a fight.

By 2003, Roy was up at HW and it had been 2 years since they'd even commented in the media.

After Ruiz, the only options for Roy were either a mega money fight at HW, or a return to LHW to face Tarver, who'd crashed the post Ruiz press conference.

Dariusz had no intentions whatever of fighting Roy in 2003.

The only guys he fought that year, were guys who Roy had already easily beaten. Also, when Roy fought Harmon in 2001, Dariusz was extremely critical of Roy, as in his opinion, he was subpar opposition. Yet he then went and fought him himself, which speaks volumes.

[robertzimmerman]

Sometimes a great legacy will need to do more than just accept available challenges. Crawford, lads, will obviously need to do something besides passively accept the best challenges made to him. Sometimes you actually have to call guys out. There were a few fighters Roy should have been aggressively calling out, even as champion. The fight might not get made after all, but it still works out better on the legacy to know he was trying to FORCE the best fights. And we know this never happened. Oh, it did? When was that? I musta forgot.

Same old, same old with you.

What do you class as trying to force a fight?

Along with Roy's advisors, HBO's Mark Taffet met privately with Bernard Hopkins in 2002. Hopkins was offered $6m and a comeback fight on HBO, to meet Roy at a 168 C-W.

Most of Bernard's purses were around $1m and under, apart from the one against Tito where he earned $2.5m.

Does that not constitute as trying to force a fight?

How about when HBO's Kerry Davis tried desperately to sit down with Dariusz' manager? How about when he faxed through the proposal of a double header to introduce Dariusz to a live U.S. audience, after his calls had not been returned?

What's your definition of trying to force a fight?

[robertzimmerman]

Good catch! What I said is NOT true. Hopkins was still a little raw, while Toney was at his best weight and much more experienced than Roy.

I also think Hopkins' move to LHw was delayed to avoid even the possibility of a rematch w/ Roy.

Here's one thing that we can agree on.

Bernard wanted absolutely nothing to do with Roy in 2002. He wouldn't face him at a C-W for $6m. Then when he was preparing to face Calzaghe in 2008, he told the media that he could have moved up to LHW 6 years earlier had he have wanted to, but he didn't want to give up his advantages.

[Longhaul]

I would have too.

No, he didn't want to leave Germany.

He was content there.

He was happy defending his WBO belt.

Roy wouldn't go over to Germany. It was a shame. But nobody should criticise him for that. Why should he have taken 3 belts over there? We know what happened in the Olympics. We know that Dariusz conned the ref in order to get Graciano Rochigianni disqualified in their first fight. And we saw the Robin Reid-Sven Ottke fight, where Ottke and the referee were a tag team.

Man I forgot about Reid vs Ottke

[QueensburyRules]

I've already told you that this is nonsense.

Dariusz and his promoter wouldn't meet with HBO in 2001 to discuss a fight.

By 2003, Roy was up at HW and it had been 2 years since they'd even commented in the media.

After Ruiz, the only options for Roy were either a mega money fight at HW, or a return to LHW to face Tarver, who'd crashed the post Ruiz press conference.

Dariusz had no intentions whatever of fighting Roy in 2003.

The only guys he fought that year, were guys who Roy had already easily beaten. Also, when Roy fought Harmon in 2001, Dariusz was extremely critical of Roy, as in his opinion, he was subpar opposition. Yet he then went and fought him himself, which speaks volumes.

- -I already told you that you are the epitome of nonsense.

Darius coming to America to challenge Roy was talked about extensively on the Aol forum. And Roy beating fighters Darius had already beat and vice versa is commonplace in shared eras.

That was the only moment to make that fight and Roy in his arrogance didn't want it. The big money was in Germany, but Roy had an unprecedented cushy gig with HBO eating out of his hand, so I gather his logic was "screw legacy and money, I already got mine."

He had already backed outta scheduled fight with the literally back from the dead Buster Douglas, so maybe he was experiencing premonitions of his ultimate doom that ultimately knocked him off his high and mighty throne.

[robertzimmerman]

Man I forgot about Reid vs Ottke

It was outrageous.

[robertzimmerman]

- -I already told you that you are the epitome of nonsense.

Darius coming to America to challenge Roy was talked about extensively on the Aol forum. And Roy beating fighters Darius had already beat and vice versa is commonplace in shared eras.

That was the only moment to make that fight and Roy in his arrogance didn't want it. The big money was in Germany, but Roy had an unprecedented cushy gig with HBO eating out of his hand, so I gather his logic was "screw legacy and money, I already got mine."

He had already backed outta scheduled fight with the literally back from the dead Buster Douglas, so maybe he was experiencing premonitions of his ultimate doom that ultimately knocked him off his high and mighty throne.

Seriously man, what the hell are you talking about?

You have already admitted your memory might be hazy regarding the dates.

In 2001, a potential fight was huge in the boxing world. Everyone wanted to see it.

In 2003, it was absolutely dead in the water.

Again, Roy beat Ruiz in March of 2003.

Before he signed to fight Tarver in September, 2003, he still had his HW physique and he was open to fighting at HW again for the right fight. He had negotiations with Evander Holyfield and he even briefly contemplated a fight with Corrie Sanders.

Dariusz did not want to fight Roy in 2003. If he says he did then he was telling porkies. Look at the dates. Roy was not available in 2003. Also, from a financial perspective, Roy was paid around $15m for the Ruiz fight, and a minimum of $5m to face Tarver. And if Dariusz' promoter wouldn't even meet with HBO in 2001, then why did he suddenly want to 2 years later?

It's absolute nonsense.

[The Old LefHook]

Tracking down and pursuing good competition in the ring adds more to a boxing legacy, lads, than producing 9th rate rap songs and showing off decent basketball skills for groupies and sycophants whose mitts were probably baskets themselves.

He needed geniuses in charge of his promotion and his hunts, not himself. But he had to be the whiz because of that giant ego. Except he wasn't that sort of whiz. He was a boxing whiz, not a Harvard financial/promotional whiz.

Psyches get damaged. What does that mean? It means Roy's was. If not for the filth of Korea, I believe we would have witnessed a much more glorious career. It turned him too isolationist. At the end of the day who did we get to see him defeat? Quite a few shoe clerks, a busboy or two, plus a couple of guys who did well in their careers with the talent given (a very modest endowment, too, by Sneezy) but who were in fact a notch or two overrated, lads, HOF inductees or not.

I have found that my own opinions are always open for business but malleable under the hammer of reason.

[QueensburyRules]

Seriously man, what the hell are you talking about?

You have already admitted your memory might be hazy regarding the dates.

In 2001, a potential fight was huge in the boxing world. Everyone wanted to see it.

In 2003, it was absolutely dead in the water.

Again, Roy beat Ruiz in March of 2003.

Before he signed to fight Tarver in September, 2003, he still had his HW physique and he was open to fighting at HW again for the right fight. He had negotiations with Evander Holyfield and he even briefly contemplated a fight with Corrie Sanders.

Dariusz did not want to fight Roy in 2003. If he says he did then he was telling porkies. Look at the dates. Roy was not available in 2003. Also, from a financial perspective, Roy was paid around $15m for the Ruiz fight, and a minimum of $5m to face Tarver. And if Dariusz' promoter wouldn't even meet with HBO in 2001, then why did he suddenly want to 2 years later?

It's absolute nonsense.

- -You and nonsense seem to go hand in hand.

AOL was in an uproar over the challenge. But Darius lost his next fight that sent Roy's boys into an ecstasy of " I told you so." But then Roy got KOed by Tarver and Roy's boys disappeared forever much like Tyson's did.

You musta been in diapers and perhaps can be excused for not knowing what you know not.

[robertzimmerman]

Tracking down and pursuing good competition in the ring adds more to a boxing legacy, lads, than producing 9th rate rap songs and showing off decent basketball skills for groupies and sycophants whose mitts were probably baskets themselves.

He needed geniuses in charge of his promotion and his hunts, not himself. But he had to be the whiz because of that giant ego. Except he wasn't that sort of whiz. He was a boxing whiz, not a Harvard financial/promotional whiz.

Psyches get damaged. What does that mean? It means Roy's was. If not for the filth of Korea, I believe we would have witnessed a much more glorious career. It turned him too isolationist. At the end of the day who did we get to see him defeat? Quite a few shoe clerks, a busboy or two, plus a couple of guys who did well in their careers with the talent given (a very modest endowment, too, by Sneezy) but who were in fact a notch or two overrated, lads, HOF inductees or not.

I have found that my own opinions are always open for business but malleable under the hammer of reason.

He did have a big ego.

In the early days, he wasn't media friendly.

He was desperate to go it alone and be in full control of his career. And the main reason for that was because his father had controlled his life for 23 years. So it made him very independent. He did however have the Levin Bros to guide his career.

He was happy to work with the big promoters, but he would never tie into them for long term deals, nor would he give them future options.

King was the one who kept trying to tie him up.

Yes, it's a shame that we didn't see him fight more quality opponents. But you simply have to accept the fact that many fighters didn't want to fight him. It wouldn't have mattered if he'd have been with with Arum or King etc. It wouldn't have made a difference in trying to secure certain fights. Because guys such as: Eubank, Liles, Dariusz, Calzaghe and Hopkins simply weren't interested in Roy when he was anywhere near his prime. And absolutely nothing would have changed that.

Although his resume could have been better, it's still very good. Especially if you look at how dominant he was in most of his fights and the fact that he moved up and down in weight.

Castro
Hopkins
Malinga
Tate
Toney
Griffin
Hill
Reggie
Hall
Harding
Woods
Ruiz
Tarver

That's a very good resume for a guy who was an amateur JMW.