Tyson-Holyfield.

[HOUDINI563]

Tyson had the bully mentality. He became a different fighter when he was really in a fight.

[Ben Bolt]

"Fought in the amateurs"?...............No!
Evander was in the light heavy division (178lbs) USA/ABF fed.
Mike was in the heavyweight division. So they only sparred together

The book The Bite Fight by George Willis describes the Tyson–Holyfield sparring session as follows:

“… Pat Nappi, the head coach of the U.S. Olympic Boxing team, wanted someone to spar with Tyson, who was brutalizing his other sparring partners. Though competing in a lower weight class, Holyfield volunteered.
According to onlookers, their battle was so ferocious Nappi had to stop the sparring after the first round.”

[The Old LefHook]

I hear a lot of nonsense. You boys need to learn your Corso. Tyson was plenty tough. It took an ATG to dismantle him anywhere near his prime which, on that particular night, Buster Douglas was. The ATG never lived who would not struggle mightily with the Douglas that showed up in Tokyo. People tend to purposely overlook the quality of the fighters who were able to beat Tyson when he was still great.

[tonysoprano]

I hear a lot of nonsense. You boys need to learn your Corso. Tyson was plenty tough. It took an ATG to dismantle him anywhere near his prime which, on that particular night, Buster Douglas was. The ATG never lived who would not struggle mightily with the Douglas that showed up in Tokyo. People tend to purposely overlook the quality of the fighters who were able to beat Tyson when he was still great.

Douglas, Holyfied and Lewis the only fighters to beat Tyson in his active career (i don't count anything post Lewis).

I would argue he wasn't in his prime in any of those fights. Tyson of 87/88 i.e at his prime, beats all 3 of those guys. We will never know of course.

[HOUDINI563]

The reason why Tyson is not rated higher all time is his inability to rise to the occasion in his toughest bouts. It’s an important intrinsic criteria when rating a fighter head to head with others who handled adversity by fighting harder.

[The Old LefHook]

The reason why Tyson is not rated higher all time is his inability to rise to the occasion in his toughest bouts. It’s an important intrinsic criteria when rating a fighter head to head with others who handled adversity by fighting harder.

True enough.

[clemenza]

I’ve mention this a few times in the past. Evander was one of a few fighters who could stand his ground , stay in the pocket of incoming punches and fight back. It takes balls and brawn & a cast iron jaw to do what evander did in most of his fights. I was live for the Mercer & Czyz fights. The Mercer fight was grueling. Ray took a knee in that bout. First time ever off his feet. Now Bobby very gallantly in his fight at the garden.
Quite honestly he made evander dig deep and pull out all the stops, Forearms , elbows head butting. Bobby was slick and his effort Evander really made Iron Mike think it would be a pretty easy fight.
Good breakdown guys .

[Dempsey-Louis]

I was watching the Douglas fight again (for some reason; I've seen it so many times) and was focusing on Tyson in his corner.

It was s strange dynamic: Arron Snowell spent the entire first-second round break whispering in Tyson's ear; not necessarily weird at first look, there is strategy to discuss and prying cameras and mics to void, but he does it for almost the entire one minute.

Then as the fight progresses (and I mean early on before Tyson is hurt) the whispering between rounds stops but Tyson almost seems disinterested; impatience with his corner; and in the end it seems as though they have to convince him to keep fighting. On several occasions Tyson scoffs at the advise he is being given and refuses to acknowledge the speaker. He looked as though he had no respect for his corner; IMO he looked like he wanted to quit but didn't (at that time) know how to do it. And I repeat this is early on, during the early rounds breaks, long before the fight looked lost.

I realize I am using 20-20 hind-sight here but as early as the Douglas fight it now looks to me as though Tyson wanted it all to be over. Maybe I am over reading what I saw but sitting in his corner this man, while surrounded by people, looked strangely alone.

[BKM-]

I was watching the Douglas fight again (for some reason; I've seen it so many times) and was focusing on Tyson in his corner.

It was s strange dynamic: Arron Snowell spent the entire first-second round break whispering in Tyson's ear; not necessarily weird at first look, there is strategy to discuss and prying cameras and mics to void, but he does it for almost the entire one minute.

Then as the fight progresses (and I mean early on before Tyson is hurt) the whispering between rounds stops but Tyson almost seems disinterested; impatience with his corner; and in the end it seems as though they have to convince him to keep fighting. On several occasions Tyson scoffs at the advise he is being given and refuses to acknowledge the speaker. He looked as though he had no respect for his corner; IMO he looked like he wanted to quit but didn't (at that time) know how to do it. And I repeat this is early on, during the early rounds breaks, long before the fight looked lost.

I realize I am using 20-20 hind-sight here but as early as the Douglas fight it now looks to me as though Tyson wanted it all to be over. Maybe I am over reading what I saw but sitting in his corner this man, while surrounded by people, looked strangely alone.

Same story for McClellan in the Benn fight, almost to a tee.

Tyson did anything but quit in that fight though.

I think Douglas would have quit if there was like a minute left in the round after he got knocked down. Just like did against jerrycurl Tucker.

[HOUDINI563]

I felt the same regarding Tyson vs Douglas. He was losing and wanted out. Again his lack of determination, will to win is the reason he is not rated higher all time.