Scoring: Clay-Liston I

[Sugarj]

Look at Listons face after six rounds. Cut, swollen and bleeding. Putty pat punches do not do that sort of damage. Also those pitty pat punches Staggered Liston several times during the fight.

Liston himself admitted afterwards that Clay could punch.

I still think there is something funny with the rematch though....

[HOUDINI563]

Fight one is the classic example of an aging champion getting busted up by a young quick great boxer. Liston was so dominant vs Patterson no one gave Ali a chance Henderson the claims of a fix. There was no fix. Ali beat Liston up.

Fight two at one time I thought was fixed but if you read the comments from those that were at ringside and saw the punch land you get a different story. Many saw a KO blow. Including Patterson, Jose Torres and Cus
D. Frame by frame analysis shows Liston got hit stepping into Ali you can see Listons head jerk to one side. As Liston goes down and rolls over on his back his legs appear to spasm. Further after the bout is stopped and the ring is filled with people you can see Liston stagger several steps as he walked in the ring. Further Listons trainers stated that after the bout in his dressing room with no one around Liston asked for smelling salts. They added Sonny NEVER asked for smelling salts before. My conclusion is that Liston got hit with a punch he never saw as he stepped foreward magnifying the punches power. It was a legit KO. Ali was stopping other fighters with the same punch. A very fast lead counter right perfectly timed to magnify the punches effect.

[Joe Beamish]

I personally think Foreman was on his way to being jobbed in Africa, if the fight went to points....

How many rounds did you have Foreman winning?

[Joe Beamish]

Yeah, good points. I really find myself scratching my head with at least one judge's score most of the time. Like the judge that scored Leonard-Hagler 118-110 for Leonard. I agreed with Dave Moretti's score instead of 115-113 Leonard. You often hear commentators saying I don't know what fight that other judge was watching. Any judges with decisions that off base should be suspended from scoring main events for at least a year and if it happens again, they get relegated to only undercard non title fights and then banned if they screw up that badly again.

Seriously. Boxing (at LEAST in title fights) should have FIVE judges. The two most extreme scores should be thrown out.

[Dempsey-Louis]

Seriously. Boxing (at LEAST in title fights) should have FIVE judges. The two most extreme scores should be thrown out.

That a good, simple, inexpensive solution; call it the East German Judge Rule.

[QueensburyRules]

Seriously. Boxing (at LEAST in title fights) should have FIVE judges. The two most extreme scores should be thrown out.

--- Dude, half the time the one of the three can't even add up his score.

Five would be a cluster fest!

[Sugarj]

How many rounds did you have Foreman winning?

I seem to remember having it 4 to 3 in favour of Ali. But I admit, I may well have had an Ali bias in my scoring. Ali's counters and combinations were very pretty and I did like his work off the ropes.

A more objective observer may well have preferred Foreman's aggression and heavier blows. He was of course champion too....

But consider that in the 7 completed rounds one judge awarded Foreman 2 rounds, another only 1 round and the third zero rounds. Out of a possible 21, he scored 3. The fight was far closer than that. I suspect a pro Ali bias in the scoring that night!

[Joe Beamish]

...I suspect a pro Ali bias in the scoring that night!

I need to rewatch that fight yet again. It’s been a few years. But I remember the last time, thinking: Ali really dominated the whole fight more than people usually say.

[Sugarj]

I need to rewatch that fight yet again. It’s been a few years. But I remember the last time, thinking: Ali really dominated the whole fight more than people usually say.

Yeah, some reports would have you believe that Foreman dominated Ali, but tired himself out. Ha ha.

Makes for a better story...

[OctoberRed]

Yeah, some reports would have you believe that Foreman dominated Ali, but tired himself out. Ha ha.

Makes for a better story...

The legend of the Rope a Dope.