A Peculiar Offer By Dempsey: Winner Take All vs. Wills

[HOUDINI563]

Mind boggling.

The 1920's are not the 2010's.

The meanings of words can change over time. What's suitable and acceptable in one time period can be completely unacceptable in another. Specifically as follows:

"Colored was the preferred term for black Americans until W.E.B. Du Bois, following the lead of Booker T. Washington, advocated for a switch to Negro in the 1920s. (Du Bois also used black in his writings, but it wasn't his term of choice.) Despite claims that Negro was a white-coined word intended to marginalize black people, Du Bois argued that the term was "etymologically and phonetically" preferable to colored or "various hyphenated circumlocutions."

Knowing this as fact OR just the mere knowledge that the meanings of words can change over time why would you try to paint Dempsey a racist by looking at his use of the word Negro? AGAIN your hand is revealed for what it is

[travestyny]

Mind boggling.

The 1920's are not the 2010's.

The meanings of words can change over time. What's suitable and acceptable in one time period can be completely unacceptable in another. Specifically as follows:

"Colored was the preferred term for black Americans until W.E.B. Du Bois, following the lead of Booker T. Washington, advocated for a switch to Negro in the 1920s. (Du Bois also used black in his writings, but it wasn't his term of choice.) Despite claims that Negro was a white-coined word intended to marginalize black people, Du Bois argued that the term was "etymologically and phonetically" preferable to colored or "various hyphenated circumlocutions."

Knowing this as fact OR just the mere knowledge that the meanings of words can change over time why would you try to paint Dempsey a racist by looking at his use of the word Negro? AGAIN your hand is revealed for what it is

The only problem is, if you read the convo you would see that I’m agreeing with you.

Mojo is disagreeing with you.

So what were you saying about my hand being revealed???

[Dempsey-Louis]

I am not sure where you two guys are going with this, and who is on what side. But, both 'colored' and 'negro' were considered polite terms. but negro was also used by racists as a dog whistle way of saying 'different race.' Polite racism.

It depended on the speaker's intention. How about we enjoy a little Langston Hughes together:

(This is a nice little twist on racism; note that the Philadelphia Club woman mentioned below is BlacK)

Langston Hughes, "The Negro Artist and the Racial Mountain," The Nation. 1926

Jazz to me is one of the inherent expressions of Negro life in America: the eternal tom-tom beating in the Negro soul - the tom-tom of revolt against weariness in a white world, a world of subway trains, and work, work, work; the tom-tom of joy and laughter, and pain swallowed in a smile. Yet the Philadelphia club woman . . . turns her nose up at jazz and all its manifestations - likewise almost everything else distinctly racial. . . . She wants the artist to flatter her, to make the white world believe that all Negroes are as smug and as near white in soul as she wants to be. But, to my mind, it is the duty of the younger Negro artist . . . to change through the force of his art that old whispering "I want to be white," hidden in the aspirations of his people, to "Why should I want to be white? I am Negro - and beautiful."

[travestyny]

I am not sure where you two guys are going with this, and who is on what side. But, both 'colored' and 'negro' were considered polite terms. but negro was also used by racists as a dog whistle way of saying 'different race.' Polite racism.

It depended on the speaker's intention. How about we enjoy a little Langston Hughes together:

(This is a nice little twist on racism; note that the Philadelphia Club woman mentioned below is BlacK)

Langston Hughes, "The Negro Artist and the Racial Mountain," The Nation. 1926

Jazz to me is one of the inherent expressions of Negro life in America: the eternal tom-tom beating in the Negro soul - the tom-tom of revolt against weariness in a white world, a world of subway trains, and work, work, work; the tom-tom of joy and laughter, and pain swallowed in a smile. Yet the Philadelphia club woman . . . turns her nose up at jazz and all its manifestations - likewise almost everything else distinctly racial. . . . She wants the artist to flatter her, to make the white world believe that all Negroes are as smug and as near white in soul as she wants to be. But, to my mind, it is the duty of the younger Negro artist . . . to change through the force of his art that old whispering "I want to be white," hidden in the aspirations of his people, to "Why should I want to be white? I am Negro - and beautiful."

You were in the other thread when Mojo went on this rant. Everyone tried to tell him that using the term negro does not mean that the speaker is racist.

He was trying to argue that quotations and articles with Dempsey using the term negro were fabrications simply because Dempsey was not a racist and would have never used that word.

Dempsey indeed used the word, but in my opinion, he was NOT a racist. I stated that clearly in this thread.

I, for one, don't believe he was a racist, but he DEFINITELY used that word on more than one occasion.

By the way, I love Langston Hughes. Much respect to him!

[travestyny]

Mind boggling.

The 1920's are not the 2010's.

The meanings of words can change over time. What's suitable and acceptable in one time period can be completely unacceptable in another. Specifically as follows:

"Colored was the preferred term for black Americans until W.E.B. Du Bois, following the lead of Booker T. Washington, advocated for a switch to Negro in the 1920s. (Du Bois also used black in his writings, but it wasn't his term of choice.) Despite claims that Negro was a white-coined word intended to marginalize black people, Du Bois argued that the term was "etymologically and phonetically" preferable to colored or "various hyphenated circumlocutions."

Knowing this as fact OR just the mere knowledge that the meanings of words can change over time why would you try to paint Dempsey a racist by looking at his use of the word Negro? AGAIN your hand is revealed for what it is

Would be nice if you could come in here and apologize for accusing me of calling Dempsey a racist, when I clearly didn't, and stated the exact opposite.

I, for one, don't believe he was a racist

[HOUDINI563]

You went on and on about Dempsey using the word in an effort to sway those that he was a racist. Trying to cover your bases after all that by stating oh no I don't believe he was a racist does not cut it.

The word Negro was acceptable to describe black people in the 1920's. End of discussion. Dempsey was not known as a racist. Period.

[travestyny]

You went on and on about Dempsey using the word in an effort to sway those that he was a racist. Trying to cover your bases after all that by stating oh no I don't believe he was a racist does not cut it.

The word Negro was acceptable to describe black people in the 1920's. End of discussion. Dempsey was not known as a racist. Period.

Dude, EVEN YOU WERE THERE IN THE OTHER THREAD WHEN EVERYONE WAS AGAINST MOJO ON THIS. WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO SLANDER ME WHEN I WAS RIGHT THERE AGREEING WITH YOU???????? HERE IS THE PROOF:


MARCH 17TH

"Negro" was common terminology for the black race in those days. Most everyone used that terminology in those days.

MARCH 17TH

Of course, and that's why it's so weird that the dude is saying if Dempsey had used the term, he would be considered a racist.

WILL YOU APOLOGIZE NOW? MOJO WAS THE ONLY ONE SAYING THE USE OF THE WORD IS RACIST. HE ARGUED THAT TO SAY THAT THE INFORMATION I PRESENTED WERE FABRICATIONS!


COME BACK AND APOLOGIZE. IT WOULD BE A MANLY THING TO DO!

[The Old LefHook]

No one should have to be hurt in these matters. Certainly people are sensitive and they have a right to be. I do a lot of kidding around about racism because I want to lighten people up and I see a way to satisfy everyone, no matter where they fall on the spectrum of opinion. There is a word that can satisfy hardcore racists and ultra ******** at the same time, believe it or not. That word is nigra. It combines the best with the worst, the most polite with the most crude for an amalgam of viewpoints, a synthesis of opposites, a blending of ideals.

My recommendation to people who are serious about taking the feelings of other people into consideration, is to start using this term. Keep track of peoples' reactions. You will probably want to switch full time to the more politic term. Thanks.

P.S. A beautiful start would be to see the movement grow from a tiny seed of suggestion and take holt right here on the forum to become a national movement. Boxing Scene forumers could be proud to be part of something bigger than themselves, and making a positive contribution. I feel like I owe it to the nigra fighters for what they have been through.

[travestyny]

You went on and on about Dempsey using the word in an effort to sway those that he was a racist. Trying to cover your bases after all that by stating oh no I don't believe he was a racist does not cut it.

The word Negro was acceptable to describe black people in the 1920's. End of discussion. Dempsey was not known as a racist. Period.

Indisputable proof. March 20th, 2018!

I'm pretty sure I told you straight up that even if he did use the word "negro" a bunch of times, I don't think that means he is a racist. Would you think the "United Negro College Fund" is a racist organization? Even posters that agree with you about Dempsey have tried to tell you that you're wrong about this, but you kept going.

Would be nice for you to come back and apologize!

[travestyny]

No one should have to be hurt in these matters. Certainly people are sensitive and they have a right to be. I do a lot of kidding around about racism because I want to lighten people up and I see a way to satisfy everyone, no matter where they fall on the spectrum of opinion. There is a word that can satisfy hardcore racists and ultra ******** at the same time, believe it or not. That word is nigra. It combines the best with the worst, the most polite with the most crude for an amalgam of viewpoints, a synthesis of opposites, a blending of ideals.

My recommendation to people who are serious about taking the feelings of other people into consideration, is to start using this term. Keep track of peoples' reactions. You will probably want to switch full time to the more politic term. Thanks.

P.S. A beautiful start would be to see the movement grow from a tiny seed of suggestion and take holt right here on the forum to become a national movement. Boxing Scene forumers could be proud to be part of something bigger than themselves, and making a positive contribution. I feel like I owe it to the nigra fighters for what they have been through.

No no no, dude, don't go there.


I'm laughing but......... leave that alone please. lol