Why Does Jack Johnson Get a Pass on Opposition while Marciano Does Not?

[Tony Trick-Pony]

I've heard numerous times over the years on how Marciano's run was weak, but I never hear this about Johnson's, despite the fact that he didn't exactly beat a murderer's row and also got credit for a defense over a middleweight and I mean, look at Jeffries. The guy hadn't fought in five years. Why the double standard?

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Probably because Marciano is closer to modern and gets matched up a lot more frequently with modern heavyweights. His resume and height/weight are the most readily apparent attributes so of course the less knowledgeable posters (most on here) are going to immediately begin detracting him for those qualities. Johnson isn't matched up with the Klitschkos or Tyson or Ali for example as Marciano is. God forbid anyone back Marciano in a fight.

I don't know what it is about boxing but it seems to be the only major sport (idk about soccer) where folks are so motivated to detract from certain fighters. It's as if they make money off of it or they have a personal vendetta. Really strange but also not surprising because I've noticed a higher percentage of boxing fans seem to have mental disorders as opposed to other sports.

[german12johnson]

Jack johnson ducked and kept from the title because of his race Marciano handlers kept him from so fighters

[Dempsey-Louis]

I've heard numerous times over the years on how Marciano's run was weak, but I never hear this about Johnson's, despite the fact that he didn't exactly beat a murderer's row and also got credit for a defense over a middleweight and I mean, look at Jeffries. The guy hadn't fought in five years. Why the double standard?

Johnson spent decades promoting himself both during and after his career. The prohibition against transporting fight films across state lines made it easy for Johnson to overstate his prowess.

It could be that Johnson is greater in lore than he actually was in the ring; but then again maybe his pre-title career says different.

Despite the long lay-off Jeffries was Johnson's toughest opponent (in a title fight).

Before winning the title Johnson does deserve credit for taking on Sam Langford, Joe Jeannette, Sam McVea, and Marvin Hart, plus others. It seems pre-title Johnson didn't look to 'duck' anyone, but once champion he was (too) judicious in his defense choices and most of the fights turned out to be dogs. E.g. Ketchel, Moran, Flynn were all really non-competitive events, (I can't speak to Al Kaufman).

When johnson was champion one can claim that he ducked the best 'negro' HWs around. Joe Jeanette, Sam McVea, and Sam Langford, all deserved title shots.

With Marciano you really can't claim he ducked anyone (Or can we?) there just wasn't much talent around to duck.

In regards to Patterson, I am of the mind that when a fighter retires (and stays retired) he shouldn't be accused of ducking the next logical opponent he didn't fight. At some point he has to retire and there will always be someone on the horizon. I.e. In my opinion Marciano didn't duck Patterson.

[Gentblue]

Before he got the strap he fought everyone, After he admitted he ducked fighters mostly black because as he put it “ no one wants too see two negroes fight”, IE no money in it so he fought great white hopes. It was more financial stability then cowardice.

[HOUDINI563]

Very true. Johnson was offered mostly low purses to fight black Heavyweights. Several bouts where purses were good fell through.

Johnson did not need to self promote his abilities or accomplishments. He was considered by experts who watched him live at ringside as being an ATG fighter. Indeed he was.

[john l]

I've heard numerous times over the years on how Marciano's run was weak, but I never hear this about Johnson's, despite the fact that he didn't exactly beat a murderer's row and also got credit for a defense over a middleweight and I mean, look at Jeffries. The guy hadn't fought in five years. Why the double standard?

I disagree Johnson fought a murders row of black fighters before he won title.Langford,McVey,Jeanette and even Denver Ed martin.All those guys better then T Burns(who was no bum)And ONLY reason he never fought them as champ was because NO ONE would pay to see two black fighters fight for TITLE.They wanted a white man and would have NO REASON to watch.Im a huge fan of the fighter and the man.I suggest you watch "UNFORGIVABLE BLACKNESS"its a Ken Burns doc about 3hrs long REALLY good.Book even better.

[john l]

Johnson spent decades promoting himself both during and after his career. The prohibition against transporting fight films across state lines made it easy for Johnson to overstate his prowess.

It could be that Johnson is greater in lore than he actually was in the ring; but then again maybe his pre-title career says different.

Despite the long lay-off Jeffries was Johnson's toughest opponent (in a title fight).

Before winning the title Johnson does deserve credit for taking on Sam Langford, Joe Jeannette, Sam McVea, and Marvin Hart, plus others. It seems pre-title Johnson didn't look to 'duck' anyone, but once champion he was (too) judicious in his defense choices and most of the fights turned out to be dogs. E.g. Ketchel, Moran, Flynn were all really non-competitive events, (I can't speak to Al Kaufman).

When johnson was champion one can claim that he ducked the best 'negro' HWs around. Joe Jeanette, Sam McVea, and Sam Langford, all deserved title shots.

With Marciano you really can't claim he ducked anyone (Or can we?) there just wasn't much talent around to duck.

In regards to Patterson, I am of the mind that when a fighter retires (and stays retired) he shouldn't be accused of ducking the next logical opponent he didn't fight. At some point he has to retire and there will always be someone on the horizon. I.e. In my opinion Marciano didn't duck Patterson.

I agree if he ducked anyone it was Liston.And I also don't call a duck if guy stays retired but Liston was already known I think he went back to prison for a bit but I believe he was thought by insiders to be next at that time.But with his mob ties he was excluded.

[GhostofDempsey]

McVea and Jeannette had less than ten fights when they fought Johnson for he first time. The last time Jeannette fought Johnson he had just 21 fights and the fight ended in a draw. McVea and Langford were several inches shorter and at least 30 pounds lighter when they fought Johnson. Once Johnson was champion he drew the color line and refused to give Langford, McVea, Jeannette, and Wills a title shot.

For all the talk about Dempsey's drawing the color line there is a double standard that allows Johnson a pass. For all he talk about Dempsey's wraps or gloves no one ever questioned Johnson's, even after he had to pick Ketchel's teeth out of his glove. I think we all know why the double standard when it comes to romanticizing Johnson and his legacy.

[travestyny]

McVea and Jeannette had less than ten fights when they fight Jihnson for he first time. The last time Jeannette fought Johnson he had just 21 fights and the fight ended in a draw. McVea and Langford were several inches shorter and at least 30 pounds lighter when they fought Johnson. Once Johnson was champion he drew the color line and refused to give Langford, McVea, Jean Esee, and Wills a title shot.

For all the talk about Dempsey's drawing the color line there is a double standard that allows Johnson a pass. For all he talk about Dempsey's wraps or gloves no one ever questioned Johnson's, even after he had to pick Ketchel's teeth out of his glove.

The point that was already brought up is that Johnson actually fought the guys you mentioned before he became champion.

Compare that to Dempsey, who ran out of the ring in New York when Joe Jeannette challenged him. Go look it up.