Why Does Jack Johnson Get a Pass on Opposition while Marciano Does Not?

[Dempsey-Louis]

You seem to be accusing people of some sort of prejudice against Dempsey.

Well I want to ask you to show where in this thread did anyone say that Black fighters from the pre WWII era were the greatest of all time. I'm assuming that you are talking about this thread because why else would you bring it up?

Finally, to say that you saw some film of a fight with Wills and you've declared that they were overrated is ludicrous.

Dempsey has been hated since he became champion in '19. - Some say he didn't receive acceptance until he lost to Tunney in '26. -- I have been surprised by the level of negative comments Dempsey does receive on this board, yes.

No, not anything anyone said here, I referring to how Jeanette, McVea, and Langford have become GOATS without anyone actually seeing them fight. I am now su****ious about just how good they were.

Again no, I didn't say Wills was 'overrated' I said he was a ****er not the master boxer, as people would often claim.

And the post was not directed at you so you don't need to call me names.

[travestyny]

Yes, I'm very aware that triangle theories don't work. It seemed to many that Dempsey had the style to crush Wills and he was no perceived as a big threat and his sparring partner Goddfrey had a similar style to Wills and so one could assume that based on these styles and how well Dempsey dispatched of big men, that he would have crushed Wills. Is it proof? No, but it's kind of like saying you think that Felix Trinidad would have beaten Adrien Granados. Sure they never fought but based on styles and power and what they've done in the ring, it's not a hard stretch to see Trinidad beating him. Tito beat anybody who came right at him, as Granados would most likely do. Wills was comparable to Goddfrey who Dempsey easily dealt with and so it's not really triangle as much as it is comparisons of similar styles. You don't know, but you can be pretty sure.

Pretty sure? Then why did the quotation that I gave say "experts" believed Wills would have won.


It's just an opinion. You're saying Dempsey is to Tito as Wills is to Granados? Really? Come on man.

There is a reason Wills, not Goddfrey, was considered "the most egregious victim of the color-line."

[travestyny]

Dempsey has been hated since he became champion in '19. - Some say he didn't receive acceptance until he lost to Tunney in '26. -- I have been surprised by the level of negative comments Dempsey does receive on this board, yes.

No, not anything anyone said here, I referring to how Jeanette, McVea, and Langford have become GOATS without anyone actually seeing them fight. I am now su****ious about just how good they were.

Again no, I didn't say Wills was 'overrated' I said he was a ****er not the master boxer, as people would often claim.

And the post was not directed at you so you don't need to call me names.

Huh? When did I call you names???

I'll go back and review my post but if I did call you anything, I apologize. I have lots of respect for you.

[travestyny]

And the post was not directed at you so you don't need to call me names.

Dude, I just looked over my post. Definitely never called you any names. Sorry if there was something that you misunderstood.

[Dempsey-Louis]

Dude, I just looked over my post. Definitely never called you any names. Sorry if there was something that you misunderstood.

Sorry -- I am just being over sensitive. I was reacting to being called ludicrous, especially since I never considered Wills overrated, just of a different style then was popularly believed.

You watching the ESPN fight tonight?

[travestyny]

Sorry -- I am just being over sensitive. I was reacting to being called ludicrous, especially since I never considered Wills overrated, just of a different style then was popularly believed.

You watching the ESPN fight tonight?

No no. I wasn't calling YOU ludicrious. I was calling what you said ludicrous, and I only meant it lightly as "unreasonable." I didn't mean for that to come off harshly so I apologize.

Unfortunately I live overseas and it's hard for me to find fights. I've been looking for a link. I heard Verdejo lost, but apparently that was untelevised anyway. So I'm still searching!!!

[HOUDINI563]

Years later Wills was interviewed regarding being denied a title shot. He emphatically stated he knew Dempsey had nothing to do with it. It was the promoters and commissions who did their best to not let the bout occur. The man himself exonerated Dempsey so who are you to challenge his word? Dempsey went over and beyond what would be expected of a hwt champion....he actively worked to make the bout occur HIMSELF. Unheard of in an era where it was common for a challenger to challenge the champion.

[travestyny]

Years later Wills was interviewed regarding being denied a title shot. He emphatically stated he knew Dempsey had nothing to do with it. It was the promoters and commissions who did their best to not let the bout occur. The man himself exonerated Dempsey so who are you to challenge his word? Dempsey went over and beyond what would be expected of a hwt champion....he actively worked to make the bout occur HIMSELF. Unheard of in an era where it was common for a challenger to challenge the champion.

No one is doubting his words. If he said that then I don't have a problem with it, if you are referring to me. He also said this:

"I don't expect ever to meet Dempsey in the ring," said a resigned Wills. "He has been dodging me for many years and now I am convinced he has been kidding all along."
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/...ticle-1.515138

So take what you want. Again, I think the only one who really knows if Dempsey truly wanted this fight is Dempsey. He said he did. Great! Doesn't explain away what happened before Wills and him repeatedly drawing the color-line.

[HOUDINI563]

Again...you are trying to argue a topic that is well known and understood by pulling snippets of a long history to bolster a false argument. It's been understood for 80 years that Dempsey did not duck Wills. He tried like hell to make the bout occur himself. Fighters fight. Managers and promoters make fights. Dempsey AS HWT CHAMPION tried to make a bout with Wills occur. Unheard of otherwise in hwt boxing history.

[HOUDINI563]

When asked who would win between Dempsey and Wills the great Sam Langford stated. "My money would be on the champion. Dempsey is the greatest fighter I have ever seen."