Casey on the great Monzon

[TonyGe]

Carlos Monzon was a de****able piece of trash in his personal life. Calling him great is like calling a cow turd a work of art. Words like "great" belong to people with admirable qualities and that's not who he was.

[mickey malone]

What about Monzon's competition? How does it compare to Hagler's competition?

Competition wise, they're not a million miles apart. Both fought the best lighter men available

Monzon beat Napoles and Griffith, where as Hagler beat Duran and Hearns, but lost to Leonard.

Other than those, one has to compare the likes of Minter, Antuofermo, Obelmejias, Scypion, Hamsho, Roldan, Sibson and Mugabi to the likes of Benvenuti, Bouttier, Moyer, Bogs, Mundine, licata, Tonna and Valdes.

Some fairly good fighters on each resume, although I suppose an argument could still be made that Duran & Hearns were better wins than Griffith & Napoles

But there is one common denominator.. Bad Benny Briscoe, who went in with both of them.
Briscoe, in my humble opinion, is right up there as one of the greatest fighters not to win a world title.
Came within a whisker of beating Monzon in what many believe was a dubious draw, then narrowly lost to him over 15 rounds five years or so later.. Past his prime and another 6yrs after that, he then went on to face the up & coming Hagler, who beat him on points over 10, but got quite busted up himself in the process.

Briscoe was, and will always be regarded as a symbolic hard man, MMH wanted no part of him for a 2nd time Where as Monzon duly obliged. But against a prime 29yr old Briscoe, as opposed to the shop worn 35yr old version who Marvin had struggled over 10 with., And quite desperately at times as well, especially during the early rounds.

Monzon had enormous natural advantages over just about any middleweight in History
He was even bigger than Iran Barkley, and with no disrespect to the blade, but he hit and moved with a lot more precision.
So to conclude, both had excellent resumes, and having been around throughout both of their careers, am of the opinion that Monzon had just a few more tools in his locker than what Hagler did.. But only just

[tonysoprano]

Monzon with day-before weigh-ins like they have now would have been scary. After re-hydrating he would have been huge.

[tonysoprano]

Carlos Monzon was a de****able piece of trash in his personal life. Calling him great is like calling a cow turd a work of art. Words like "great" belong to people with admirable qualities and that's not who he was.

Great boxer not a great person. Many great boxers have turbulent personal lives.

[The Old LefHook]

In a real war that is action all the way such as Hagler would provide, no one is going to tell me that those 100 cigarettes a day are not going to catch up to Monzon and tell on him. One reason he failed to gasp for air is because opponents were letting him dictate the pace. If an opponent was able to dictate and turn the pace up, Monzon should shortly find himself in the unfamiliar territory of exhaustion. We never even saw close to that. Monzon may have been the greatest ring general in boxing history. He just always controlled the tempo of the action. But if anyone could force an uncomfortable tempo on him it would be Hagler. One problem for Hag would be that he himself was a mediocre ring general, relying on brute pressure to break his men down. He had good boxing technique, but was simply, in my opinion, one of the worst ring generals among the crowd of ATG's.

[TonyGe]

Great boxer not a great person. Many great boxers have turbulent personal lives.

I this case that's an understatement. The guy beat his wife, girlfriends and strangled his wife and threw the body off the hotel balcony. Sorry I can't separate the two in such an extreme case.

[mickey malone]

In a real war that is action all the way such as Hagler would provide, no one is going to tell me that those 100 cigarettes a day are not going to catch up to Monzon and tell on him. One reason he failed to gasp for air is because opponents were letting him dictate the pace. If an opponent was able to dictate and turn the pace up, Monzon should shortly find himself in the unfamiliar territory of exhaustion. We never even saw close to that. Monzon may have been the greatest ring general in boxing history. He just always controlled the tempo of the action. But if anyone could force an uncomfortable tempo on him it would be Hagler. One problem for Hag would be that he himself was a mediocre ring general, relying on brute pressure to break his men down. He had good boxing technique, but was simply, in my opinion, one of the worst ring generals among the crowd of ATG's.

And he drank like a fish too!

Excellent post btw

[The Old LefHook]

Monzon did not appear to have lazy spells during a fight. He was punching all the time, which is how a boxer had ought to proceed.

[chrisJS]

Carlos Monzon was a de****able piece of trash in his personal life. Calling him great is like calling a cow turd a work of art. Words like "great" belong to people with admirable qualities and that's not who he was.

He was a piece of **** and he deserved to die but he's a great fighter without question.

[The Old LefHook]

He was a piece of **** and he deserved to die but he's a great fighter without question.

Gentleman Carlos was a self-fancied dandy.