Robinson or Ali, who's really the greatest?

[joeandthebums]

Both great men who lost a lot professionally and personally due to the war. Always been a fan of Schmeling.

[The Old LefHook]

Thanks and you.



Robinson''s career suffered from the war in general as it allowed the WW title to elude him for another 3 years.

He took a personal / professional hit for the Armstrong fight. For carrying Armstrong on what the paying public felt was a con he was kept out of New York / The Garden. It took the draw of a LaMotta fight to get him back in. A 16 month absence from the capital of the boxing world.

I'm away from files at the moment but from memory remember Robinson explaining how army training was not comparable to that of a boxer so quickly lost fighting conditioning.



Sadly we have no footage but, again from memory of articles the write ups of Robinson usually questioned whether he had peaked / lost something.

The first rave review post-war fight was McDaniels, June-1946.

I do not say the war did not hamper Robby's career. But we cannot really be sure that the welterweight title avoided him for three more years strictly because the war was on. It might very well have avoided him anyway, since he did not want to play dirty ball with the gangsters who controlled boxing at the time.

At any rate, I believe 3 1/2 years had a more dire effect on Ali than 14 months off had on Robby, being exactly 3 times as long.

Not having early film of Robby is what kills us. Otherwise we would find the gems where he looked his best, those exemplary moments worthy of the all time P4P king by general consensus even at this late date. By now there are a lot of naysayers in any AT P4P poll, yet amazingly, Robinson still always wins. I seriously cannot recall an AT P4P poll he did not win. That amazes me.

[joeandthebums]

But we cannot really be sure that the welterweight title avoided him for three more years strictly because the war was on. It might very well have avoided him anyway, since he did not want to play dirty ball with the gangsters who controlled boxing at the time.

I feel we can say with absolute certainty he would of fought for title during that period.

He was he most famed, biggest draw and recognised talent in the division - the champion and Mike Jacobs would only of been able to delay it by 1 or 2 fights.

Robinson didn't need to deal with the mobsters re: throwing fights - he did have to deal with Jacobs who it is generally acknowledged held up a title shot for Robinson to limit his already difficult (for Jacobs) negotiation approach.

[The Old LefHook]

I feel we can say with absolute certainty he would of fought for title during that period.

That is very interesting. You evidently feel quite strongly about it. Of course absolute certainty is hyperbolic, but I get the idea.

You noted Robinson's popularity in support of your view.

What was the deal with championships during the war, were they frozen, or something like that?

It seems like you may have a strong case. In normal times it would have gotten huge attention within and without the sport that its most talented star was being denied a title shot for that long.

Explain a little more about Jacobs and the top boxing gangsters of the time, if you will. Wasn't it Blinkey Carbo, or something like that? These names may be jumbled in my head.

[StarshipTrooper]

That is very interesting. You evidently feel quite strongly about it. Of course absolute certainty is hyperbolic, but I get the idea.

You noted Robinson's popularity in support of your view.

What was the deal with championships during the war, were they frozen, or something like that?

It seems like you may have a strong case. In normal times it would have gotten huge attention within and without the sport that its most talented star was being denied a title shot for that long.

Explain a little more about Jacobs and the top boxing gangsters of the time, if you will. Wasn't it Blinkey Carbo, or something like that? These names may be jumbled in my head.

Frankie Carbo and Blinky Palermo.

[lightsout_finit]

Who do you think is the best ever?

Neither they are both bums.
Marciano kills both at the same time.....

Both Sugar Ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali have a legitimate claim to the title of, "Greatest Of All Time".

No they don't. That Is just yank propaganda

They both lacked heart. (they both quit in fights because they didn't have the guts to continue)

Both have robbery wins.

Both have multiple losses.
(Robinson has losses like a journeyman)

Ali got knocked out by a eurobum. (Cooper)

Robinson was a duck.

Both were involved in fixed fights (probably)

[antjohn]

Ali all of the way. The GOAT both in and out of the ring.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Ali "I'm the best heavyweight of all time, but pound for pound its Ray Robinson". This was out of Ali's own mouth

[OctoberRed]

Ali "I'm the best heavyweight of all time, but pound for pound its Ray Robinson". This was out of Ali's own mouth

Ali knew the score from day 1. There are some rare photos of the two out there.

[The Old LefHook]

Neither they are both bums.
Marciano kills both at the same time.....



No they don't. That Is just yank propaganda

They both lacked heart. (they both quit in fights because they didn't have the guts to continue)

Both have robbery wins.

Both have multiple losses.
(Robinson has losses like a journeyman)

Ali got knocked out by a eurobum. (Cooper)

Robinson was a duck.

Both were involved in fixed fights (probably)

You are one of those British halfwts, no doubt about it. The worst and least informed sports fans in the world.

Tell us how Joshua is so superior to everyone else after two fights neither of which should have been stopped, you pure British halfwit.

Now get out of here. You are sickening