Ali-Foreman II...in 1975 before Frazier

[BKM-]

Ali was, and would always be too slick for Foreman. His brilliant movement confused Foreman, and most importantly, he could take Foreman's bombs. Foreman was missing Ali because he was a ****ty puncher, and ALi was great at avoiding Foreman. I dont care what trainer he would go to, there was no way he could become a good puncher and all of a sudden nail Ali all night, or even knock him out!! Styles make fights, only they have the physical ability and Muhammad Ali had all the thing to beat George Foreman.

[dansweeney]

Ali was, and would always be too slick for Foreman. His brilliant movement confused Foreman, and most importantly, he could take Foreman's bombs. Foreman was missing Ali because he was a ****ty puncher, and ALi was great at avoiding Foreman. I dont care what trainer he would go to, there was no way he could become a good puncher and all of a sudden nail Ali all night, or even knock him out!! Styles make fights, only they have the physical ability and Muhammad Ali had all the thing to beat George Foreman.

brilliant movement? in that fight he laid on the ropes and covered up for 8 rounds till foreman tired out. he didn't move at all

[Heckler]

I disagree. I think that because Foreman was unable to get that rematch with Ali was the reason he became less of a fighter in the latter half of the 70's. He was still beating fighters but was still unable to get another title shot and the first Ali fight was playing on his mind.

If he was given the chance to prove himself against Ali in a rematch I'm sure we would see a different side to Foreman. He would train harder than ever before and be focussed on his goal - only this time Foreman won't fall for the rope a dope and Ali will be forced to traded more with Foreman.

If you look at Ali after the rumble in the jungle he wasn't nearly as impressive either. Guys like Wepner lasting in there with him and Ali spending more times on the ropes.

So I can see that in a rematch Foreman will be the more prepared physically and mentally and more detirmined to win.

I can see how you would believe this. However I don't think Foreman would be mentally prepared to win, i think the Foreman that would step between those ropes insecure and conscious of his lack of stamina which was blown out of proportion . From what ive read and seen the only mental effects the rumble in the jungle had on George were adverse. I can see this playing out very similar to the Jimmy Young fight, George is tentative and fights at a measured pace giving Ali the oppurtunity to control the flow of the fight and outbox George. Look at the segments of rumble where Ali is off the ropes, even when George is storming towards Ali trying to take his headoff he gets picked apart.

People are saying that George Fought a ****** fight? He fought the the fight that suited his styles and abilities best. George Foreman barely had any sembelence of technique, he was wild, inaccurate, had poor timing and was essentially the epitome of a slugger. What was he to do? Fight more measured? He just didn't have the technical prowess to pull this off against Ali. The best option for Foreman was to get ontop of Ali as fast as possible, cut the ring and try to take Ali's head off. He tried this but Ali resorted to the rope a dope and in this situation George did exactly as he should've... he was presented with a prime target lying on the ropes and he tried to kill it.

Foreman didn't loose because he was ****** or ill prepared he lost because he met a man that had the correct combination of strengths to exploit his Weaknesses. How many other fighters would of survived that assault on the ropes?

You are right... Ali never looked as sharp after that fight, but if he did manage to get into the same shape in the rematch which i suspect he would i would definately give the nod to Ali.

[butterfly1964]

Ali was, and would always be too slick for Foreman. His brilliant movement confused Foreman, and most importantly, he could take Foreman's bombs. Foreman was missing Ali because he was a ****ty puncher, and ALi was great at avoiding Foreman. I dont care what trainer he would go to, there was no way he could become a good puncher and all of a sudden nail Ali all night, or even knock him out!! Styles make fights, only they have the physical ability and Muhammad Ali had all the thing to beat George Foreman.

Wow, I'm suprised! I thought you were gonna say that Foreman would beat Ali all over the ring and knock him out in the middle rounds or something.

[BKM-]

brilliant movement? in that fight he laid on the ropes and covered up for 8 rounds till foreman tired out. he didn't move at all

Yes, but when Foreman backed off a bit, Ali would throw tricky punches and move, he did that in the first rounds aswell. But yes, he was on the ropes most of the times.

Wow, I'm suprised! I thought you were gonna say that Foreman would beat Ali all over the ring and knock him out in the middle rounds or something.

I've always liked Ali(People dont know). And im not gonna lie about this fight, i really believe Ali would always win.

[Frazier's 15th round]

Aside from all the fouling Ali did in The Rumble, he completely dominated Foreman. Foreman barely gets off a clean shot all night. Pretty much every punch grazes, misses entirely, or hits the gloves of Ali.

[K-DOGG]

Okay, here we go...my synopsis.

For those of you who picked Ali to win the rematch....I am in agreement. The Rumble in the Jungle did a number on Big George's ego and self-confidence. In my opinion, he WOULD have been more patient and tactical in a rematch; but in there lies the rub. George was no where near the technician Ali was. He knew how to cut off the ring well, it's true. However, that was for the purpose of cornering an opponent and blasting him into oblivion....something he'd tried and failed against Ali in the first fight.

In a rematch, George would still employ the cutting off the ring tactics because Ali would come out aggressive as he did in round 1 of the orignal encounter and capitalize on the primary weakness he found in George's defensive armour....his inability to block Ali's lead right hand, which was one of Ali's best punches.

In a rematch, I can easily see Ali slamming home that right, tying up George when he needed to, screwing with his head in the clinches as before, getting George to abandon his game plan and tire him out down the stretch, puffing him up around the eyes and maybe even cutting him. Anybody who's ever trained George had trouble making him listen to instruction, George always thought he knew what was best....and in his second career you can see evidence of George's frustration in the Shulz fight as he tells one of his cornermen to "Shut UP!" after a particularly bad round. Gil Clancy has said "you can't tell George anything, he's going to do what he wants to do".

Also, Ali had one of the best chins ever in the heavyweight division. George will not land the "one big one" and put him away. The only way for George to stop Ali was to land hard and land consistantly....and, quite frankly, George just wasn't that good. He was a great monster; but he was no leading man....that was Ali's job.

This fight would be won by Muhammad Ali by either wide UD or late round TKO....in my opinion, of course.


Thank all of you again for your participation and insight.

Peace.

[hellfire508]

Ali by stoppage, in about the 13th. Foreman wouldn't waste punches as much, and Ali would dance. Ali was an excellent counter-puncher, and still had a lot of hand speed in 75. Foreman would still get nailed all night with his open defence. The way I see it - a fairly boring fight, with Ali leading the exchanges some rounds, and counter-punching in others. Foreman tries to cut of the ring but struggles to. Remember: Foreman was mentally destroyed post-Zaire. This would play a mjaor factor. The ref stops the action in round 13, when Foreman is exhausted (after getting pumelled a bit, he would get careless again) and getting nailed.

[QueensburyRules]

Okay, here we go...my synopsis.

For those of you who picked Ali to win the rematch....I am in agreement. The Rumble in the Jungle did a number on Big George's ego and self-confidence. In my opinion, he WOULD have been more patient and tactical in a rematch; but in there lies the rub. George was no where near the technician Ali was. He knew how to cut off the ring well, it's true. However, that was for the purpose of cornering an opponent and blasting him into oblivion....something he'd tried and failed against Ali in the first fight.

In a rematch, George would still employ the cutting off the ring tactics because Ali would come out aggressive as he did in round 1 of the orignal encounter and capitalize on the primary weakness he found in George's defensive armour....his inability to block Ali's lead right hand, which was one of Ali's best punches.

In a rematch, I can easily see Ali slamming home that right, tying up George when he needed to, screwing with his head in the clinches as before, getting George to abandon his game plan and tire him out down the stretch, puffing him up around the eyes and maybe even cutting him. Anybody who's ever trained George had trouble making him listen to instruction, George always thought he knew what was best....and in his second career you can see evidence of George's frustration in the Shulz fight as he tells one of his cornermen to "Shut UP!" after a particularly bad round. Gil Clancy has said "you can't tell George anything, he's going to do what he wants to do".

Also, Ali had one of the best chins ever in the heavyweight division. George will not land the "one big one" and put him away. The only way for George to stop Ali was to land hard and land consistantly....and, quite frankly, George just wasn't that good. He was a great monster; but he was no leading man....that was Ali's job.

This fight would be won by Muhammad Ali by either wide UD or late round TKO....in my opinion, of course.


Thank all of you again for your participation and insight.

Peace.

- -Point being that Ferdie and Herbert advised against the $10 mil split purse because of the horrific damage incurred in Zaire.

Thus Ali repeatedly swore publicly that he'd never rematch George.

[QueensburyRules]

I can see how you would believe this. However I don't think Foreman would be mentally prepared to win, i think the Foreman that would step between those ropes insecure and conscious of his lack of stamina which was blown out of proportion . From what ive read and seen the only mental effects the rumble in the jungle had on George were adverse. I can see this playing out very similar to the Jimmy Young fight, George is tentative and fights at a measured pace giving Ali the oppurtunity to control the flow of the fight and outbox George. Look at the segments of rumble where Ali is off the ropes, even when George is storming towards Ali trying to take his headoff he gets picked apart.

People are saying that George Fought a ****** fight? He fought the the fight that suited his styles and abilities best. George Foreman barely had any sembelence of technique, he was wild, inaccurate, had poor timing and was essentially the epitome of a slugger. What was he to do? Fight more measured? He just didn't have the technical prowess to pull this off against Ali. The best option for Foreman was to get ontop of Ali as fast as possible, cut the ring and try to take Ali's head off. He tried this but Ali resorted to the rope a dope and in this situation George did exactly as he should've... he was presented with a prime target lying on the ropes and he tried to kill it.

Foreman didn't loose because he was ****** or ill prepared he lost because he met a man that had the correct combination of strengths to exploit his Weaknesses. How many other fighters would of survived that assault on the ropes?

You are right... Ali never looked as sharp after that fight, but if he did manage to get into the same shape in the rematch which i suspect he would i would definately give the nod to Ali.

- -This for U Mr Health Industry spokesman.

Foreman lost the battle that night, but won the war as U note the gross Ali physical decline. See my comments above this one. /\

George did the same to Field.