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Originally posted by butterfly1964
thats cause u horribly underate marciano. hes an automatic top 10 heavyweight
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thats cause u horribly underate marciano. hes an automatic top 10 heavyweight -
Originally posted by butterfly1964
but rocky didnt struggle with his competition. outside of walcott I and lastarza I, marciano was clearly ahead in the scorecards on all his fights.Comment
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he struggled with charles both times. he struggled somewhat with louis, and moore knocked him down and was able to slug it out with him till the end.Originally posted by SuzieQ49Comment
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Marciano was well ahead on the score cards in fight 1 with Charles. Nothing close in the fight, sure it was a hard fight.
Fight 2 was more of a masscer imo. Charles was able to win 1 mere round(By on the scorecards, and IN my eyes)
The fight was not close at all, Marciano blow him out in 8 EASY rounds.Comment
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Also Moore WAS unable to slug it with Rocky until the end. It lasted 9 rounds.
Outside of round 2, I have Moore 2 maybe 3 rounds max.
Outside of the flash knockdown, Marciano had his way with Archie, and pounded him into burger in 9 rounds.Comment
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Originally posted by butterfly1964
im confused????? define struggling for me please...........
marciano was well ahead on the scorecards of the louis fight and then knocked joe louis out cold! louis hadnt been knocked out in 14 years! how did he struggle with joe louis???
how did marciano struggle with charles in the 2nd fight??????/ please butterfly tell me?? after 7 rounds, marciano was up on the scorecards 6 rounds to 1, 6 rounds to 0 1 even and 6 rounds to 1. that means marciano BASICALLY WON EVERY ROUND OF THE CHARLES REMATCH. he also knocked down charles 3 times!
NOW TELL ME HOW IS THAT STRUGGLING??
marciano dominated archie moore knocking him down 4 times. at the time of the stoppage, marciano was well ahead on the scorecards. u say moore was able to slug it out with rocky? thats bull****. every time he tried to slug it out with the rock he ended up on his ass!
so moore was knocked down 4 times in 9 rounds, battered from post to post, was trailing by a good amount on the scorecards going into the 9th yet u are saying marciano struggled vs him?Comment
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everyones saying tyson!!
tyson is certainly one of the top ten of all time if you discount the amount of times he quit toward the end of his career
but his heart wasn't in it after he was no longer able to knock everyone outComment
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Suzie Q is right-
Marciano struggled with Walcott and Lastarza and justifiabley, for the first lastarza fight he hadn't trained. Once again i will repeat and explain to you all that due to the result of his previous bout (knocking Carmine Vingo into a coma) he was between the hospital and church, he had hardly any training. During the fight he's admitted to holding back due to fear of Hurting someone. Understand Marciano was a kind man and never meant to intentionally hurt anyone.
Walcott, Walcott was prime for that fight, that was the fight of his life, he was great, out boxing, counterin. He gave Marciano a handful but to the best of my knowledge the scorecards were pretty close, Walcott had a slight edge when Marciano got something in his eye from Walcott's glove. Like what happened to Ali vs Liston. Marciano went chraging blind and got tagged giving him the disadvantage in points.
These were the only two fights that Marciano had clear trouble in. Also in defense to Marciano taking many rounds to knock people out please relize that it is widely known that Marciano was a slow starter.Comment
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Most Overrated?
No hate here; but what about Harry Greb? I'll admit I rank him very highly on both my middleweight and p4p lists; but like everybody else, I'm going on others opionions and writings of the time. No one living, to my knowledge, has ever seen Greb fight....yet he's ranked so highly on rep alone. Just a thought.
Another potentially overrated fighter is Salvador Sanchez...cause he died at 23, so he is remembered on potential because we'll never know how his career would have panned out, for better or worse.
Fighters I've seen who I BELIEVE are overrated:
David Reid, William Joppy, Zab Judah, Sharmba Mitchell, Joe Mesi, Shannon Briggs, Naseem Hamed, Hector Camacho (had potential; but after Rosario...well, ya know), Evander Holyfield....(great fighter; but overrated by manyt at heavyweight when you really look at his W-L record in big matches),Hasim Rahman (people finally caught up to me on this one), James Toney (at heavyweight....last fight proved it), Sonny Liston...(he is great; but many place him too high, IMO)...same with Jersey Joe Walcott.
Honestly, it's easier for me to pick the most underated; but that's not the thread. Sooo.....
Most Overrated Contender or Champion in History? Well, I'm thinking it would have to be a more modern champion, given all the alphabelts and the opportunity to avoid the best. Also, it would have to be a fighter who most people feel is nearly legend status and who's legacy was not tainted or exposed because he never gave anyone the chance....or he did and it was and people still ignore their eyes.
For me, that would make the winner.....George Foreman.
Don't get me wrong, I love George and he is an all time great; but for people to place him in the top 5 heavies of all time is rediculous.
He retired at 28 after being outboxed by Jimmy Young, a figher he should have defeated. So, we never saw his career play out. As of 1977, Foreman had beaten Joe Frazier....whose style was hand made for him, Ken Norton....who showed later on that he always froze like a deer in headlights when facing a man with power; his style was more or less aggressive, so he couldn't handle a bigger badder man, & Ron Lyle. Who else of significance? No one.
Then, he comes back at 38, gets laughed at and eventually builds support by knocking off a bunch of never-weres. People love a good story; but who did George beat in his second career?
Gerry Cooney...hadn't fought since Michael Spinks stopped him in 5 two years before; and was inactive before that.
Alex Stewart....who nearly beat him; and did beat him to a pulp. Who hasn't stopped Alex Steaward besides George?
Micael Moorer....ahh, here's the deciding vote: a blown up Cruiserweight with a light-heavyweight chin.
Don't get me wrong. I love big George; but when someone rates him at #5 or above on their all-time great heavyweight list, it's more to do with loving a good story and loving seeing a fairy-tale come true, than actual in-ring accomplishments, IMO.
George fought in the late 80's and early to mid 90's. The decade of Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, Mercer, Morrison, Ruddock, and so many others. He fought Holyfield and Morrison; and lost to both. Moorer was a good heavyweight and got a close decision over Holyfield; but one win's not enough....and Shultz, Savarese, and Briggs (that was a win) don't quite measure up to the afore-metioned 7.
That's my take.Comment
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Thee most overrated of all time as said before by me and others is no other then Jack Johnson. Jack Johnson was a giant for his times at 6'0. He fought bums, he fought in a much much weaker time then Marciano so don't go there. He used very very light gloves and still didn't do the damage of fighters that came after him.
Johnson fought many light heavyweights, and middleweights. Many of his fights even right up until he won the heavyweight title only had a couple fights. Some of his fights were against guys who only fought him and then retired. His biggest fight was against an obviously past his prime James J. Jefferies.
you think i'm lying about who he fought just look at his record for yourself
http://boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=1187
I'm very confident that if Jack Johnson was white nobody would of heard his name. Not a top10 fighter.
Granted he was a good historical figure, he went where no man had gone before (black man) and he broke the color barrier. Could historical figure, very overrated fighter.Comment
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