Most overrated boxer in history?

[Heckler]

It is unproven, I am only going by what I have been told and read. I read that Ali was knocked down and unable to get up. I believe he would be knocked down and its possible he couldn't get up immediately. I heard he got up after about 5 minutes. I doubt it was that long, maybe 10 seconds.

This story gets more and more unbelieveable every time i hear it. Lets be realistic about this, Ali was hit by tremendous left hooks to the body by Joe Frazier... and Frazier worked the body over better then any HW.. Ali did not waver. George Foreman hit ali with quote 'the hardest body punch i ever hit someone with'.

The story i heard is Ali was being a smartass and jabbing at Marciano's hairpiece which kept falling off, Marciano warned him... Ali did it again... Ali whilst unprepared for it, out of fighting condition was hit with a good bodyshot and Ali was hurt. Following this Ali and Marciano developed mutual respect and a good friendship. I can believe this, but i will not believe that Ali was on the ground in pain for 5 minutes.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

This story gets more and more unbelieveable every time i hear it. Lets be realistic about this, Ali was hit by tremendous left hooks to the body by Joe Frazier... and Frazier worked the body over better then any HW.. Ali did not waver. George Foreman hit ali with quote 'the hardest body punch i ever hit someone with'.

The story i heard is Ali was being a smartass and jabbing at Marciano's hairpiece which kept falling off, Marciano warned him... Ali did it again... Ali whilst unprepared for it, out of fighting condition was hit with a good bodyshot and Ali was hurt. Following this Ali and Marciano developed mutual respect and a good friendship. I can believe this, but i will not believe that Ali was on the ground in pain for 5 minutes.

hold on

"Ali's people told him that Marciano was wearing a wig to cover his baldness. He decided to have a little fun with Rocky. He danced around and threw a high jab, which just clipped Marciano's wig and knocked it to the canvas. The filming was stopped while the wig was refitted, amid bemused smiles from several observers.

Marciano was embarrassed and angry. "He did that on purpose to make me look stupid. He doesn't have have respect for me at all." Rocky was assured it was an accident and the filming resumed. Ali again jabbed high and sent the wig flying. Rocky was mad this time. "You better not do that again!" They began once more and immediately Ali flicked the wig off Marciano's head. Without hesitation, Marciano dug a vicious body shot into Ali's mid-section, doubling him over. Pacheco said Muhammad actually dropped and was completely helpless.

Quickly, the trainers separated the fighters. Dundee remembers, "The fight was stopped until Rocky's temper cooled off." Marciano offered to turn it into a real fight immediately if Ali was game. Only after Muhammad apologized did Rocky get over his anger. Ali's attitude was different from that point on, as it was obvious to all that Marciano would rather fight than be disrespected."


here's evidence
its under the wig incident at the link shown
http://www.mackinacmedia.com/SuperFight/history2.htm


in regards to the bold i would say Ali didn't get hit cleanly with those body shots, granted they were IMO the hardest but not cleanly, also I would believe that Marciano was inside on Ali when this happened and got a good show on him so

[hellfire508]

The truth of the matter is: Marciano hit Ali who was overweight, out-of-shape and clowing around in what couldn't even be considered sparring, with a shot to the body that may have put him down briefly.

Against Frazier and Foreman, he was in peak condition, and in a fight, where he WAS prepared to take shots - and ready for them.

[Carolina Bomber]

Rocky Marciano did get to fight a prime Jersey Joe Walcott, in there bout Walcott fought the fight of his life and was at his absolute best. Unfortunatley he lost.

Floyd Patterson- marciano was supposed to fight Floyd Patterson but when Patterson was offered the chance Patterson said he was going to fight Light Heavy weight for a few years.

Arche Moore wasn't prime against Marciano, in fact i believe his prime was when he was a LHW more so then when he was a HW but i still believe he'd beat Moore. because at that point in Marciano's career Rocky wasn't prime either (more or less)

Marciano wanted to come out of retirement to fight Liston because Rocky hated liston, unfortunatley at this point Rocky had been retired to long to hope to make a comeback (4 years) by this time Rocky was already well over 200lbs, probably close to 300lbs

Joe Walcott was 38 and 39 years old for the 2 fights they had, its hardly possible he was in his prime, i think the only one who might have been in his fighting best at that age was archie moore, bernard hopkins also faught like he was 30 when he was 38 and 39

[Carolina Bomber]

hold on

"Ali's people told him that Marciano was wearing a wig to cover his baldness. He decided to have a little fun with Rocky. He danced around and threw a high jab, which just clipped Marciano's wig and knocked it to the canvas. The filming was stopped while the wig was refitted, amid bemused smiles from several observers.

Marciano was embarrassed and angry. "He did that on purpose to make me look stupid. He doesn't have have respect for me at all." Rocky was assured it was an accident and the filming resumed. Ali again jabbed high and sent the wig flying. Rocky was mad this time. "You better not do that again!" They began once more and immediately Ali flicked the wig off Marciano's head. Without hesitation, Marciano dug a vicious body shot into Ali's mid-section, doubling him over. Pacheco said Muhammad actually dropped and was completely helpless.

Quickly, the trainers separated the fighters. Dundee remembers, "The fight was stopped until Rocky's temper cooled off." Marciano offered to turn it into a real fight immediately if Ali was game. Only after Muhammad apologized did Rocky get over his anger. Ali's attitude was different from that point on, as it was obvious to all that Marciano would rather fight than be disrespected."


here's evidence
its under the wig incident at the link shown
http://www.mackinacmedia.com/SuperFight/history2.htm


in regards to the bold i would say Ali didn't get hit cleanly with those body shots, granted they were IMO the hardest but not cleanly, also I would believe that Marciano was inside on Ali when this happened and got a good show on him so

i think anyone that gets hits when they are not expecting it would be in great pain, especially in the stomach or side, and that is a good point Ali survived some heave artillary from some of the best body punchers of all time, i think if he braced himself, and was in good shape, he wouldnt have been that hurt

[Heckler]

Ali was hit cleanly with that body shot, it was an interview with Foreman and Foreman was talking about how most of the shots were hitting Ali's elbows.. Foreman then attacked the head, then focused on Ali's body once again and hit him with a number of clean body shots one of them being quote 'the hardest punch i ever hit someone with, i saw him cringe in pain for a second... then he smiled at me' - Documentary Ali: Through the eyes of the world.

The notion that Ali was hit with no clean punches at all from Foreman is ridiculous. Foreman threw a huge amount of Power punches that night, not just one but often he opened up with combinations of body rips whilst Ali was lying against the ropes in the earlier rounds... and whilst a disproportionate number of those punches missed it becomes apparent when watching the film that Ali was still tagged with a number of power punches.

Marcianofan.. there are various accounts like the one that you have provided that are apparently from reputable sources and they all tend to differ and have varying levels of dramatization. I think its probably that Ali was hurt and even dropped by a body shot from Marciano, but him being essentially KO'd seems a tad far fetched.

[SuzieQ49]

Marciano wanted to come out of retirement to fight Liston because Rocky hated liston

since when? he hated johannsen, not liston

[Kid Achilles]

I love that wig story. Rocky was a natural born fighter and if he couldn't obtain your respect through good manners and diplomacy, he would take it by sheer force. He wasn't a guy you'd want to play games with, in or out of the ring. Rocky did he best to behave like a gentleman around family and friends and in interviews, but he had a blazing fire of a temper beneath that nice guy exterior, especially if he thought he was being disrespected.

[Kid Achilles]

Marciano had little love for Liston, due to a few run ins the two had where Liston displayed contempt for his boxing ability in their conversations, but Rocky respected Liston's ability as a fighter. Johansson was a guy who the Rock had no respect for and he was truly annoyed by Ingo's playboy lifestyle and cocky personality. Marciano really wanted to knock Ingo out and I think he would have, even if he had to train down from the 250-300 pounds he weighed at the time and even in his old age.

[Frazier's 15th round]

Marciano was about 50 years old and 120 pounds overweight when he knocked out Clay in sparring, imagine what he'd do in his prime. He'd dust off that half-breed pretty quick.