The Myth Of Mike Tyson

[SABBATH]

LOL, Sabbath is copping his information from another source. Cyberboxinzone forums. What a loser.

That's pretty funny because I've never been on that site. Boxingscene is the only exclusive boxing site I go on. Link it to me and let me see for myself..

[Smokin']

Yeah, ok big shot. Stop pawning off other people's ideas. Thanks.

[kjellho]

At my age son, I've spent more time watching boxing than you've spent breathing. I've got more fights in my library than you have brain cells, that's for sure.

What a huge load of crap!
We should all kneel in front of the all-knowing Sabbath! He's old and has a lot of life experience and therefore he knows more than anyone on these forum's about boxing
Your attempts on placing yourself above everyone here with that intellectual facade is just embarrassing. Any idiot can see through that. "At my age son"? Jeesus, patronising others just because you're older than them, tss...

Man, quit trying to make yourself out as the god of boxing. You're a fraud. If I tell you that you are important, will that make you happy? Haha.

[mgkirkpatrick]

uve picked apart the paper work, now pick apart his power, his irrefutable ability to throw loaded, quick silver combinations with deadly accuracy. dispute his handspeed, dispute his ability to work the angles, dispute the intense and evasive head movement that he utilised combined with the ferocity he deployed. (obviously im talking prime here)

im serious man, im reasonable and i will listen to an objective critque of tysons boxing ability. let rip.

now i know there isnt a question mark there but here it is. discredit his skills without mentioning his record.

[SABBATH]

now pick apart his power, his irrefutable ability to throw loaded, quick silver combinations with deadly accuracy. dispute his handspeed, dispute his ability to work the angles, dispute the intense and evasive head movement that he utilised combined with the ferocity he deployed. im serious man, im reasonable and i will listen to an objective critque of tysons boxing ability. let rip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlfs2...larry%20holmes

I have chosen a random but prime Mike Tyson fight (1988 vs Larry Holmes) and broken it down regarding your above comments, which by the way is a challenge not a question. As I stated before, Holmes hadn't won a fight in 3 years, hadn't fought in 2 years, was coming off two losses to a light-heavyweight making his heavyweight debut and was 2 months shy of 39 years old. Still with Kevin Rooney training him, this fight should give Tyson a chance to really shine.

Rounds 1-3: For the most part Holmes does very little but reach out at Tyson then clinch when Tyson moves in. Larry basically walks around the ring flat footed and occasionally places an outstretched left hand on Tyson's head. Larry changes directions but is not up on his toes, moving in and out or punching other than trying the odd right hand powershot. Larry displays no foot speed or his patented left jab. Larry appears to be a complete shell of the prime 1978-81 Holmes.

Tyson tries jabbing his way in but is short most of time. In the 2nd round Tyson lands 3 jabs. Perhaps instructed by Rooney, Tyson throws many more jabs in the 3rd round but is short with the majority of them.

Tyson appears slightly frustrated at times, waving Holmes towards him after missing from out of range and in the 3rd when Tyson hits Holmes low and is warned for it by referee Joe Cortez.

Tyson attacks primarily straight on and only at brief times displays his foot speed or aggressive pressure.

Tyson usually has some bounce in his legs for the first 20-30 seconds at the beginning of each round before going flat-footed. Tyson usually walks and follows Holmes often lunging with power shots then falling into a clinch.

On the inside Tyson does not try and punch his way out or break free. Tyson seem content to lock arms with Holmes. Tyson lands the odd singular body shot in these clinches. Tyson does no effective work on the inside.

Tyson is unable to pin Larry to the ropes to land anymore than one punch at a time and never catches Larry in a corner.

Tyson does display good side to side head movement in the first two rounds but since Holmes throws so few punches it is unecessary as a defensive tactic. Tyson does use it to feint before punching but by the 3rd round is doing it noticeably much less.

Tyson lands the odd solid singular bodyshot but misses some roundhouse head shots in the 2nd round and misses a big left hook in the 3rd. At the bell Tyson lands his best 2 head shots so far with a solid left hook which came after a right hand. Holmes is not hurt by these punches and talks and gestures to Tyson as they walk back to their corners.

After 3 rounds I have not seen Tyson land any combinations with 'pinpoint accuracy'. Tyson's loaded punches have been wild and missed their mark, he has not given Holmes angles, instead attacking head-on which is how Holmes is able to just reach straight out and hold Tyson off. The side to side head movement is not as suited on the inside as a bob weave style which would have allowed for Tyson to come up and under Holmes outstretched arms.

The side to side head movement was there in the 1st but has diminished by the 3rd. Tyson has not appeared particularly ferocious on the inside and is content to wait for the referee to break. Tyson's pattern by the 3rd round is to attack Holmes flat footed straight on throw short jabs that ususally miss their mark and load one power punch at a time. His handspeed looks good but he is landing few punches of any substance so his accuracy is off. Commentator Bob Sheridan mentions that this is shaping up to be another Tyson-Bonecrusher Smith fight.

Round 4: Tyson comes out faster while Holmes decides to dance on his toes and jab. About half land and Tyson slips the other half. Holmes hands are at his waist and he looks like what he is, an old Holmes trying to impersonate a young Holmes. Tyson lands a good left hook to the head with Holmes on the ropes and Holmes is off immediately. Tyson throws a left jab and a hard, accurate right hand to the head and Holmes goes down. Tyson is able to duplicate what Kevin Issac, Ernie Shavers and Renaldo Snipes did and that's drop Holmes with a right hand over a low left. The knockdown comes at the 1:24 mark and Holmes looks very hurt.

Holmes is up and Tyson misses a left, lands a left, misses a right and misses a right and a still legless Holmes tumbles down. (1 punch out of 4 lands)

Tyson lands a right to the shoulder then misses 3 lefts and 2 rights as Holmes stumbles to mid-ring.(5 punches in a row miss Holmes head)

Tyson has Holmes badly hurt and is headhunting throwing wild roundhouse hooks in sequences of alternating hands ie: L-R or R-L but throwing no body punches, no jabs, no straight punches and no uppercuts. Tyson is missing at least half of these punches.

Holmes backs to the ropes and Tyson lands a right, misses a left, lands a right hand to the body and misses a left (lands 2 out of 4, predictable sequence of R-L-R-L).

Holmes attempts a right uppercut but his arm gets caught in the second rope strand and Tyson lands two very hard rights. Holmes is down and the fight is over.

POOR/SATISFACTORY/AVERAGE/GOOD/VERY GOOD/EXCELLENT


ONE PUNCH POWER............................EXCELLENT
PUNCHING ACCURACY........................SATISFACTORY
CUTTING OFF THE RING.......................POOR
COMBINATION PUNCHING...................AVERAGE
IN FIGHTING......................................POOR
HANDSPEED......................................VERY GOOD
JAB.................................................. SATISFACTORY
KILLER INSTINCT................................EXCELLENT
BODY PUNCHING................................AVERAGE
HEAD MOVEMENT...............................VERY GOOD
ADAPTABILITY...................................GOOD
FOOT SPEED.......................................AVERAGE

Tyson's excellent one punch power and killer instinct bails him out from what was shaping up to be a ho-hum boring fight with a past his prime, rusty, albeit ringwise, experienced and at one time great former champion.

As you can see from my rating system, in this fight Tyson is top heavy in one punch power and killer instinct (excellent) while deficient in in-fighting and cutting off the ring (poor).

Tyson misses alot of loaded power shots, more than half. Tyson is not able to put together combinations of even 3 punches where each punch lands. Tyson always misses at least half the punches if not more within a combination or series of punches. (average and satisfactory)

Tyson does throw several jabs in round 3, but it is used more as a diversion weapon than a scoring punch (satisfactory).

I'm going to give Tyson credit by thinking he may have been using the diversion jab to set up the first right hand knockdown which is why I gave him a good in adaptability. I did see him try it once earlier in the fight. Up until the knockdown, Tyson really had no definitive answers for Holmes survival fight strategy.

Tyson is able to score more than one punch with Holmes on the ropes prior to the knockout when Larry retreats there when he is hurt and legless. Before this, Tyson never corners or traps Holmes escape routes at any time in the fight up to that point, which is why Holmes survives as long as he did while being flat-footed and throwing very few punches at Tyson. For this reason I scored Tyson low in cutting off the ring (poor) and foot speed (average).

Tyson lands a few solid body punches in the fight but never concentrates an attack that will wear an opponent down later in the fight (average).

[Heckler]

K for sabbath.

[SABBATH]

K for sabbath.

K appreciated.

[BSD]

Someone has a Tyson fetish. You spent all that time writing your critique of the fight and the bottom line is still the same. Tyson knocked him out.

[SABBATH]

You spent all that time writing your critique of the fight and the bottom line is still the same. Tyson knocked him out.

I stepped up to the plate and answered the challenge of mgkirkpatrick and specifically critiqued what he requested. Now we will see how reasonable and willing to listen to an objective critique he is.....

[K-DOGG]

I have chosen a random but prime Mike Tyson fight (1988 vs Larry Holmes) and broken it down regarding your above comments, which by the way is a challenge not a question. As I stated before, Holmes hadn't won a fight in 3 years, hadn't fought in 2 years, was coming off two losses to a light-heavyweight making his heavyweight debut and was 2 months shy of 39 years old. Still with Kevin Rooney training him, this fight should give Tyson a chance to really shine.

Rounds 1-3: For the most part Holmes does very little but reach out at Tyson then clinch when Tyson moves in. Larry basically walks around the ring flat footed and occasionally places an outstretched left hand on Tyson's head. Larry changes directions but is not up on his toes, moving in and out or punching other than trying the odd right hand powershot. Larry displays no foot speed or his patented left jab. Larry appears to be a complete shell of the prime 1978-81 Holmes.

Tyson tries jabbing his way in but is short most of time. In the 2nd round Tyson lands 3 jabs. Perhaps instructed by Rooney, Tyson throws many more jabs in the 3rd round but is short with the majority of them.

Tyson appears slightly frustrated at times, waving Holmes towards him after missing from out of range and in the 3rd when Tyson hits Holmes low and is warned for it by referee Joe Cortez.

Tyson attacks primarily straight on and only at brief times displays his foot speed or aggressive pressure.

Tyson usually has some bounce in his legs for the first 20-30 seconds at the beginning of each round before going flat-footed. Tyson usually walks and follows Holmes often lunging with power shots then falling into a clinch.

On the inside Tyson does not try and punch his way out or break free. Tyson seem content to lock arms with Holmes. Tyson lands the odd singular body shot in these clinches. Tyson does no effective work on the inside.

Tyson is unable to pin Larry to the ropes to land anymore than one punch at a time and never catches Larry in a corner.

Tyson does display good side to side head movement in the first two rounds but since Holmes throws so few punches it is unecessary as a defensive tactic. Tyson does use it to feint before punching but by the 3rd round is doing it noticeably much less.

Tyson lands the odd solid singular bodyshot but misses some roundhouse head shots in the 2nd round and misses a big left hook in the 3rd. At the bell Tyson lands his best 2 head shots so far with a solid left hook which came after a right hand. Holmes is not hurt by these punches and talks and gestures to Tyson as they walk back to their corners.

After 3 rounds I have not seen Tyson land any combinations with 'pinpoint accuracy'. Tyson's loaded punches have been wild and missed their mark, he has not given Holmes angles, instead attacking head-on which is how Holmes is able to just reach straight out and hold Tyson off. The side to side head movement is not as suited on the inside as a bob weave style which would have allowed for Tyson to come up and under Holmes outstretched arms.

The side to side head movement was there in the 1st but has diminished by the 3rd. Tyson has not appeared particularly ferocious on the inside and is content to wait for the referee to break. Tyson's pattern by the 3rd round is to attack Holmes flat footed straight on throw short jabs that ususally miss their mark and load one power punch at a time. His handspeed looks good but he is landing few punches of any substance so his accuracy is off. Commentator Bob Sheridan mentions that this is shaping up to be another Tyson-Bonecrusher Smith fight.

Round 4: Tyson comes out faster while Holmes decides to dance on his toes and jab. About half land and Tyson slips the other half. Holmes hands are at his waist and he looks like what he is, an old Holmes trying to impersonate a young Holmes. Tyson lands a good left hook to the head with Holmes on the ropes and Holmes is off immediately. Tyson throws a left jab and a hard, accurate right hand to the head and Holmes goes down. Tyson is able to duplicate what Kevin Issac, Ernie Shavers and Renaldo Snipes did and that's drop Holmes with a right hand over a low left. The knockdown comes at the 1:24 mark and Holmes looks very hurt.

Holmes is up and Tyson misses a left, lands a left, misses a right and misses a right and a still legless Holmes tumbles down. (1 punch out of 4 lands)

Tyson lands a right to the shoulder then misses 3 lefts and 2 rights as Holmes stumbles to mid-ring.(5 punches in a row miss Holmes head)

Tyson has Holmes badly hurt and is headhunting throwing wild roundhouse hooks in sequences of alternating hands ie: L-R or R-L but throwing no body punches, no jabs, no straight punches and no uppercuts. Tyson is missing at least half of these punches.

Holmes backs to the ropes and Tyson lands a right, misses a left, lands a right hand to the body and misses a left (lands 2 out of 4, predictable sequence of R-L-R-L).

Holmes attempts a right uppercut but his arm gets caught in the second rope strand and Tyson lands two very hard rights. Holmes is down and the fight is over.

POOR/SATISFACTORY/AVERAGE/GOOD/VERY GOOD/EXCELLENT


ONE PUNCH POWER............................EXCELLENT
PUNCHING ACCURACY........................SATISFACTORY
CUTTING OFF THE RING.......................POOR
COMBINATION PUNCHING...................AVERAGE
IN FIGHTING......................................POOR
HANDSPEED......................................VERY GOOD
JAB.................................................. SATISFACTORY
KILLER INSTINCT................................EXCELLENT
BODY PUNCHING................................AVERAGE
HEAD MOVEMENT...............................VERY GOOD
ADAPTABILITY...................................GOOD
FOOT SPEED.......................................AVERAGE

Tyson's excellent one punch power and killer instinct bails him out from what was shaping up to be a ho-hum boring fight with a past his prime, rusty, albeit ringwise, experienced and at one time great former champion.

As you can see from my rating system, in this fight Tyson is top heavy in one punch power and killer instinct (excellent) while deficient in in-fighting and cutting off the ring (poor).

Tyson misses alot of loaded power shots, more than half. Tyson is not able to put together combinations of even 3 punches where each punch lands. Tyson always misses at least half the punches if not more within a combination or series of punches. (average and satisfactory)

Tyson does throw several jabs in round 3, but it is used more as a diversion weapon than a scoring punch (satisfactory).

I'm going to give Tyson credit by thinking he may have been using the diversion jab to set up the first right hand knockdown which is why I gave him a good in adaptability. I did see him try it once earlier in the fight. Up until the knockdown, Tyson really had no definitive answers for Holmes survival fight strategy.

Tyson is able to score more than one punch with Holmes on the ropes prior to the knockout when Larry retreats there when he is hurt and legless. Before this, Tyson never corners or traps Holmes escape routes at any time in the fight up to that point, which is why Holmes survives as long as he did while being flat-footed and throwing very few punches at Tyson. For this reason I scored Tyson low in cutting off the ring (poor) and foot speed (average).

Tyson lands a few solid body punches in the fight but never concentrates an attack that will wear an opponent down later in the fight (average).

Yup. That's as well as it can be said. WEll DISECTED, SABBATH. I'd give you K; but I gotta spread it around.


Note to other posters....Sabbath knows his ****.