The age old Debate.

[REMOVE SHARK 55]

"And no the old guys get none of the modern benefits".





Elaborate on the "Modern benefits" ????? What no answer? There never is!!!

They don't get to use modern exercise techniques that encompass modern science. A high intensity fighter is likely to benefit from exercise that involves max intensity drills e.g. Circuit training or a certain amount of reps on a gym machine.

The old timers don't get to review in-depth footage of their opponents.

I'm not sure how many old timers were second and third generation Boxers. That's evolution, a benefit of the times.

[Ray Corso]

...a gym machine? hahahaha
How many second and third generation fighters make up the percentage of active boxers?

If you do chins in a hallway in a basement or in a gym are the chins different?

Who do you want teaching you Mr. Blackburn or some guy in Serbia?

You train in Hamburg Germany or at the Kronk in Detroit?

Here the evolution end in boxing its an individuals experience!
What Lexi Arguello did has little to nothing to do what you can do!
Is Chocolatito the evolution of Lexi? Maybe but how much better is he or is he better? We know Rios isn't better wheres the evolution for Rios? He's slow sloppy D level version of Antuofermo.

Is there someone who moves better than Pep?
Is there someone with a two handed attack like Robinson?
Is there a more successful "basic" talent than Foreman?

Yes boxing does have an evolution, we have Rigo and Lomo and Choclatito and a few others but the greats today are not as good as the greats from the past in my opinion.
If you watch Charles or Louis box there are no heavyweights today who have their knowledge and their skill level. Did you watch Wlad vs Fury? Stunk!

Todays pro boxing has slowly evolved into amateur boxing from the '72 Olypmics. Stand up tall, control with a jab. look to drop a right hand in then step out and start again! NEVER punch with your opponent and fighting inside is illegal! HA!

Sunday fish fry is on and the fish are fresh from the gulf this morning!

Ray

[juggernaut666]

...a gym machine? hahahaha
How many second and third generation fighters make up the percentage of active boxers?

If you do chins in a hallway in a basement or in a gym are the chins different?

Who do you want teaching you Mr. Blackburn or some guy in Serbia?

You train in Hamburg Germany or at the Kronk in Detroit?

Here the evolution end in boxing its an individuals experience!
What Lexi Arguello did has little to nothing to do what you can do!
Is Chocolatito the evolution of Lexi? Maybe but how much better is he or is he better? We know Rios isn't better wheres the evolution for Rios? He's slow sloppy D level version of Antuofermo.

Is there someone who moves better than Pep?
Is there someone with a two handed attack like Robinson?
Is there a more successful "basic" talent than Foreman?

Yes boxing does have an evolution, we have Rigo and Lomo and Choclatito and a few others but the greats today are not as good as the greats from the past in my opinion.
If you watch Charles or Louis box there are no heavyweights today who have their knowledge and their skill level. Did you watch Wlad vs Fury? Stunk!

Todays pro boxing has slowly evolved into amateur boxing from the '72 Olypmics. Stand up tall, control with a jab. look to drop a right hand in then step out and start again! NEVER punch with your opponent and fighting inside is illegal! HA!

Sunday fish fry is on and the fish are fresh from the gulf this morning!

Ray

'Is there a more successful "basic" talent than Foreman?" should have left it at that DOPEY....

[The Old LefHook]

Well as for weight the socalled modern fitness machines has been replaced with old fashioned weights in most nfl team gyms.

And back in the very old days they used other stuff as can be seen in this thread I made many years ago:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=206859

No those old time fighters could just not find anything to lift. There were not as many things to lift in those days.

If they live in a rural area they had no stairs to climb. These things happen. I know a woman who studied to become a molecular engineer, got her degree and the moved off to Montana where there are relatively few molecules. You can look all day for a molecule in Montana.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Well the deck is stacked against the old-timers if they are forced to fight under modern rules ie only 12 rounds, bigger gloves, stricter referees etc.

Imagine how it would be if it was the opposite. 45 rounds, 4 ounce gloves etc.

Oh it would be a wash. Haha.

I'm not too convinced of modern training methods and this and that. I always thought that the harder life is for a person, the tougher they become or they break. A lot of fighters today do come from decent upbringings or in some cases, very good upbringings but you look at guys like Depsey, Duran and Pacquiao as well. These guys came from nothing and achieved greatness on many levels. Had they enjoyed pleasant upbringings, I'm not too sure they would have done as well.

For instance, people nowadays are typically lazier than in past eras because they can be. In America at least, there are many more obese people than there once were. This of course indicates that very few are "hungry dogs" walking around. A fighter who never had to fight for peanuts like those old timers did can't compare with what they went through. I favor the old guys who fought for less, gave more in many cases and had the fortitude to stand up for 15+ rounds as well as fighting as often as a few times a month. These modern guys who fight twice a year? Please.

[motivational]

I think if proper drug testing was done on and everyone who was fighting was legitimate, then the old boxers would destroy the new ones. There's no comparing Rocky Marciano to half of modern day boxers and how old are we talking here? Are we talking Joe Louis timezone? Or Mike Tyson time? Except Tyson Fury and a couple of other rare exceptions, most modern boxers are terrible.

[REMOVE SHARK 55]

...a gym machine? hahahaha
How many second and third generation fighters make up the percentage of active boxers?

If you do chins in a hallway in a basement or in a gym are the chins different?

Who do you want teaching you Mr. Blackburn or some guy in Serbia?

You train in Hamburg Germany or at the Kronk in Detroit?

Here the evolution end in boxing its an individuals experience!
What Lexi Arguello did has little to nothing to do what you can do!
Is Chocolatito the evolution of Lexi? Maybe but how much better is he or is he better? We know Rios isn't better wheres the evolution for Rios? He's slow sloppy D level version of Antuofermo.

Is there someone who moves better than Pep?
Is there someone with a two handed attack like Robinson?
Is there a more successful "basic" talent than Foreman?

Yes boxing does have an evolution, we have Rigo and Lomo and Choclatito and a few others but the greats today are not as good as the greats from the past in my opinion.
If you watch Charles or Louis box there are no heavyweights today who have their knowledge and their skill level. Did you watch Wlad vs Fury? Stunk!

Todays pro boxing has slowly evolved into amateur boxing from the '72 Olypmics. Stand up tall, control with a jab. look to drop a right hand in then step out and start again! NEVER punch with your opponent and fighting inside is illegal! HA!

Sunday fish fry is on and the fish are fresh from the gulf this morning!

Ray

Ray, if you were to put Louis and Charles in this era do you feel they'll be equally as dominant as the era before?. I'd beg to differ, my reason is that having having their knowledge and skillset will be rendered useless against Humans bigger, faster and stronger. As a bonus they've also inherited skills left from Boxers from a previous generation. How is Louis going to manage to slip a punch, whilst managing to get in range and punch against a Wlad or Fury? Big men that know how to fight big!.

Regarding generational Boxers I'm not saying there's a mass amount of 2nd and 3rd, my point is that there IS in fact generational Boxers plying their trade in the industry and throughout the 12 round era. This is not something that occurred in the Johnson days, neither the Robinson.

No better 'basic' talent than George Foreman? I don't understand what you mean by that. Fundamentally?, Resume wise?.

[The Old LefHook]

Ray, if you were to put Louis and Charles in this era do you feel they'll be equally as dominant as the era before?. I'd beg to differ, my reason is that having having their knowledge and skillset will be rendered useless against Humans bigger, faster and stronger. As a bonus they've also inherited skills left from Boxers from a previous generation. How is Louis going to manage to slip a punch, whilst managing to get in range and punch against a Wlad or Fury? Big men that know how to fight big!.

Regarding generational Boxers I'm not saying there's a mass amount of 2nd and 3rd, my point is that there IS in fact generational Boxers plying their trade in the industry and throughout the 12 round era. This is not something that occurred in the Johnson days, neither the Robinson.

No better 'basic' talent than George Foreman? I don't understand what you mean by that. Fundamentally?, Resume wise?.

How could the old guys hope to have success against modern boxers who all have advanced footwork? Pep and Conn never existed. All guys today have avanced footwork, kind of like the thinking of some people which has advanced beyond logic to opinion.

Did you say a monent ago that other than TYson Fury and someone else, no one today knows how to box? If you did, I don't even know why I am talking to such a churl. Fury is one of the worst jokes to ever come along in boxing, destined for a very short reign.

[REMOVE SHARK 55]

How could the old guys hope to have success against modern boxers who all have advanced footwork? Pep and Conn never existed. All guys today have avanced footwork, kind of like the thinking of some people which has advanced beyond logic to opinion.

Did you say a monent ago that other than TYson Fury and someone else, no one today knows how to box? If you did, I don't even know why I am talking to such a churl. Fury is one of the worst jokes to ever come along in boxing, destined for a very short reign.

This is the age old debate, I'll wait for Ray to respond. You seem like a nostalgic bigot if you fail to realise the size difference between Wlad & Louis or Fury & Louis. If you were to have taken a lot of the old timers from the past in to the present, they'd come up short.

[juggernaut666]

This is the age old debate, I'll wait for Ray to respond. You seem like a nostalgic bigot if you fail to realise the size difference between Wlad & Louis or Fury & Louis. If you were to have taken a lot of the old timers from the past in to the present, they'd come up short.

You're in for a real treat with these two and in ray's case ,that SIZE is irrelevant but then goes on bizarre rants about Lammota's SIZE of being to big and strong for todays lightweight because he was a natural 170 pounder . Oblivious people will simply not acknowledge how modern training benefits a fighter through taking out much guess work and pin point specific needs for each individual ,one because they are not smart enough to think of even that or two they dont want to admit it ! Lennox Lewis's fitness trainer said it perfectly ,in that those old time boxers had limited concept of what over training was and inability to reduce tissue breakdown through diet .

If the body itself is not at full potential to what it can be you simply dont performe at your best ,add in many boxers couldn't dedicate 100% to boxing bc of having jobs its pretty obvious why boxers are training better today which makes them smarter on that alone ,without having access to video footage which would only expand the difference between then and now by a huge margin . The perfect example of video footage is Max Shmelling k.oing Joe Louis when Jack Johnson told Shmelling to throw a couhter over hand right after watching some footage .Back then fighters simply didnt study other fighters and break them down .Iuse Louis because he was considered the best ,flawless fighter but anyone can see he was always open to that punch ,simple common sense like that wouldn't be complicated at all today to pin point such an obvious flaw ,but then footage was rare as was how fighters prepared . Studying someone extensively would have dramatically effected how a fight is played out .

And the other almost equally nutcase thinks Zorra Folley outpoints Vital Klitchko....:wank: