sam langford the most underated heavyweight of all time

[SuzieQ49]

It's hard to see Langford as anywhere in the top 30 heavyweights of all time due to his many losses to Harry Wills and his losses to the likes of Fred Fulton and Bill Tate. Wills eventually got Langford's number, beating him something like 7 or 8 times in a row in the late teens and early 1920s. Bill Tate was a much better fighter than his record would suggest but was dominated by Joe Jeannette, but could handle Langford.

woaa woa woa langford was far past his prime when he lost those fights



take a look at langfords prime 1908-1913


- the fact a past his prime langford beat harry wills twice is a testament to langford



jack johnson ducked sam langford during his title years, did u guys know that?

did u also know johnson ducked sam mcvey and joe jeanette, two guys langford beat?


langford beat 3 top 25 heavyweights of all time joe jeanette, sam mcvey, harry wills

[SuzieQ49]

langford dominated jack johnsons era, not jack johnson

[smasher]

jack johnson ducked sam langford during his title years, did u guys know that?

Well....did he duck him because he feared him or more plausibly there was no financial interest in two blacks competing for the heavyweight championship.

By most accounts I've read, Johnson deservedly defeated Langford when they fought.

[SuzieQ49]

in 1906 when langford was only 156lb! thats right a junior middleweight.

- johnson totally ducked langford from 1908-1915.


when langford reached his heavyweight prime, johnson avoided fighting him.



a 185lb prime langford is a lot better than a 156lb langford. what 156lb do u know that can be competitive with top heavyweights?

[smasher]

in 1906 when langford was only 156lb! thats right a junior middleweight.

- johnson totally ducked langford from 1908-1915.


when langford reached his heavyweight prime, johnson avoided fighting him.



a 185lb prime langford is a lot better than a 156lb langford. what 156lb do u know that can be competitive with top heavyweights?

I'm well aware of what Langford weighed for their fight, my point is this. What happened in that fight that suddenly made Johnson afraid to rematch against Langford? The fact that he gained 20 lbs?

In those times you made your money by the live gate and as Johnson was a businessman it was more profitable to fight Jeffries or Ketchell than a Langford fight which wouldn't have drawn near as big a gate.

[Yogi]

Well....did he duck him because he feared him or more plausibly there was no financial interest in two blacks competing for the heavyweight championship.

Nothing to do with money, Smasher, as on multiple ocassions Johnson was offered huge sums of money to defend against Langford in both London and especially, Australia.

When he first won the title Johnson expressed a willingness to fight all comers, but when Langford first put for a challenge in 1909, Johnson had a slight change of mind...

Promoters tried matching them up right after Johnson was finished his business with Jeffries in 1910, the fight was negotiated in London, yet Johnson changed his mind and refused the $20,000 offered to him (an offer was also presented to Johnson in 1914).

In 1911, Johnson signed with Hugh McIntosh and made a big fuss saying that he would fight anybody in the world for a purse of $30,000. A couple of months later (in early 1912) that amount was offered to him to fight Langford in Australia, and yet again, Johnson refused to sign.

A couple of months after that, McIntosh upped the anty and this time offered Johnson $40,000 to fight Langford in Australia, which of course...well, you know.

A huge sum of money (I've heard from $60,000 to $100,000) was offered to Johnson in late 1912/early 1913 to defend his title three times in Australia, with Langford, McVey, and Jeannette as the challengers. Again, you know the story.

And so on, and so on, and so on...MANY different offers were presented to Johnson to fight Langford in both Australia, England and even France during the end of his reign, and Johnson refused every single one of them...It couldn't have been a money issue either, because the promoters met and even exceeded his financial demands. It's also worth noting that the $30,000 that Johnson asked for/demanded in 1911 was the exact purse he recieved when he lost his title to Willard.

[smasher]

Nothing to do with money, Smasher, as on multiple ocassions Johnson was offered huge sums of money to defend against Langford in both London and especially, Australia.

When he first won the title Johnson expressed a willingness to fight all comers, but when Langford first put for a challenge in 1909, Johnson had a slight change of mind...

Promoters tried matching them up right after Johnson was finished his business with Jeffries in 1910, the fight was negotiated in London, yet Johnson changed his mind and refused the $20,000 offered to him (an offer was also presented to Johnson in 1914).

In 1911, Johnson signed with Hugh McIntosh and made a big fuss saying that he would fight anybody in the world for a purse of $30,000. A couple of months later (in early 1912) that amount was offered to him to fight Langford in Australia, and yet again, Johnson refused to sign.

A couple of months after that, McIntosh upped the anty and this time offered Johnson $40,000 to fight Langford in Australia, which of course...well, you know.

A huge sum of money (I've heard from $60,000 to $100,000) was offered to Johnson in late 1912/early 1913 to defend his title three times in Australia, with Langford, McVey, and Jeannette as the challengers. Again, you know the story.

And so on, and so on, and so on...MANY different offers were presented to Johnson to fight Langford in both Australia, England and even France during the end of his reign, and Johnson refused every single one of them...It couldn't have been a money issue either, because the promoters met and even exceeded his financial demands. It's also worth noting that the $30,000 that Johnson asked for/demanded in 1911 was the exact purse he recieved when he lost his title to Willard.

Oh yeah...well Langford ducked Duane Bobick lol

[Yogi]

Oh yeah...well Langford ducked Duane Bobick lol

Well, of course...Bobick was a beast!

I'm trying to find some info on how much Johnson made for the fight with Jeffries for comparisions sake. I found out that he was initially offered $25,000 for that fight, but it didn't say he agreed to those terms, so I don't think that's what he made...Might've been paid a percentage of the gate, maybe a 'winner's purse', or something like that.

[Kid Achilles]

This is interesting stuff Yogi. I always thought it was for financial reasons that he ducked McVey, Langford, and Jeanette but I had no idea the demand for a Langford rematch was so high. Very interesting.

[smasher]

Well, of course...Bobick was a beast!

I'm trying to find some info on how much Johnson made for the fight with Jeffries for comparisions sake. I found out that he was initially offered $25,000 for that fight, but it didn't say he agreed to those terms, so I don't think that's what he made...Might've been paid a percentage of the gate, maybe a 'winner's purse', or something like that.

Actually I just went back to 'Unforgivable Blackness" and read about the Macintosh offer as well as the offer of the fight in London. Johnson made some excuse about Langford not being worthy due to him losing 4 fights in 2 years as well as being beaten by Gunboat Smith blah blah blah. I've got "In the Ring and Out" Johnson's autobiography but his accounts are pretty slanted and that's what I was remembering about the money aspect, as that was his excuse. Anyway I'm sure Johnson-Langford would have been a much better fight than any of Johnson's other defences.

I do believe they did sign but Tex Record accidentally used the wrong date making the contract null and void....haha