Wladimir Klitschko - How dominant has he been

[PainfromUkraine]

Wlad the universally recognized Heavyweight Champion of the World..

How good is he?
Where do you rank him historically?
How dominant has he been?

Call me crazy but I think Wlad's "tactics" with the use of clinching and holding would probably give him more chance of beating guys like Ali and Frazier etc. Those guys fought at tremendous paces and used full arsenals of punches while Wlad relies more on the trusty 1-2 and some hooks now and again. If he was able to control his opponents and tire them out using clinch tactics and fighting at his pace, THAT's where his physical advantages would come into play and help him win in fantasy matchups.

Wlad has always lost when he has allowed his opponent to dictate the pace of the fight - he gassed out and Sdunek had to throw the towel in v Puritty, against Sanders he was blitzed and after first being hurt couldn't deal with the onslaught that followed and chose a ****** decision of fight, not flight, to recover, and against Brewster when he could not uphold his pace but Brewster pushed back, he was found wanting and gassed out again.

The dominance is to be highly respected and the manner in which he came back from adversity and being written off, to climbing the mountain and remaining at the summit for so long has to be respected and is in some ways the typical hallmark story of a champion.

How 'good' is he? For a man of his size, he is probably the best in the division that we have seen so far, aside from Lewis perhaps (i'm talking about strictly superheavyweights here) - because in some ways I think it isn't particularly fair to expect the same kind of techniques and fighting styles of a guy let's say 6'2, 210lbs, and a guy 6'6, 250lbs.

Historically he will go down certainly within the top 15, most likely in the top 10, possibly in the top 5 depending on what he accomplishes in this last period of his career, and will depend on how views will change about him once he is gone (as usually our view of fighters improves once they are retired).

[Roy Keane]

I rate Wlad highly.

What impressed me most was how he delt with Haye, Haye was fast and explosive and Wlad was able to negate Hayes speed of foot and hand with his own which was impressive for a big guy.

[sonnyboyx2]

not much more which i can add to this debate which has not already been said. I had a small wager on Wlad's last fight against Kubrat Pulev, i thought Pulev may be worth a wager because Tyson Fury had avoided him and he was undefeated. I watched the fight live` on my PC and was tremendously impressed. Wlad nearly ****ing killed Pulev.

[BKM-2010]

Ok but do you not think Johnson used the exact same techniques on the much smaller guys like Flynn, Langford and Ketchel? Grabbing techniques work best if you're a great deal taller than your opponent - which Wladimir is more often than not. You see what happened when Johnson fought Jess Willard - regardless if he took a dive or not - he couldn't impose any of that on him.

Jess Willard is nowhere near the fighter Wladimir is. You look at Jack Johnson and see him fight and get dropped by a middleweight in Ketchel - I know he brutally knocked him out seconds later - but still. Imagine he had a 6'6 behemoth with brutal one-punch KO power in front of him.

The only way I could possibly see Johnson win was if he was som
+-ehow able to tire Wlad out. Say they fought outside in the summer sun like some of Johnson's fights and it went beyond 12 rounds and Johnson was still in it (which I doubt), then maybe Wlad would fatigue and get knocked out. Other than that, I can't see Johnson doing anything with Wlad at all.

That is an unfair example of one of Johnson's fights(past prime, not at top shape etc.) and yet it actually proves my point even more. Did you know Johnson won nearly every single round of the what was it, 28 rounds that he fought against Willard before tiring out in the extreme heat and getting sparked?

For most of the earlier goings in the fight he was the one outgrappling Willard the much bigger man. And Willard is also a much better grappler than Wladimir. Wladimir has nowhere near the gast tank prime Johnson had, not even remotely close. And also Jeffries although far past prime, touted as one of the strongest heavyweights ever could not deal with Johnson's strength and called him the strongest man he ever faced.

And no, they are not the exact same 'grabbing techniques' lol. Wlad is very big and strong, it's raw strength. But this is not comparable to a grappling master. Johnson's era was when greco roman wrestling was still a part of the sport despite the MQR rules. He could apply leverage and his arms and torso in ways that Wladimir wouldn't understand. All the while delivering damaging blows. Where is Wlad's inside boxing games? In the toilet. He's not gonna stay on the outside and mid range to pepper Johnson. No he would play right into his game, because Wlad can no longer fight without grabbing out of fear.

So then, a couple of rounds of getting smothered by Johnson and realising he can't GRAB his way out of danger like he's been doing in our time for years, Wlad's infamous fatique will show up again and it would be a matter of time before Johnson finishes him off.

Viali however is a whole nother ballgame. He would beat Johnson, IMO. But this is where my MMA knowledge comes in handy. I am extremely confident in beleiving Jack Johnson would defeat Wladimir Klitschko. Hopefully billeau comes in to chime in, he is smarter than me when it comes to going into details about this.

[juggernaut666]

That is an unfair example of one of Johnson's fights(past prime, not at top shape etc.) and yet it actually proves my point even more. Did you know Johnson won nearly every single round of the what was it, 28 rounds that he fought against Willard before tiring out in the extreme heat and getting sparked?

For most of the earlier goings in the fight he was the one outgrappling Willard the much bigger man. And Willard is also a much better grappler than Wladimir. Wladimir has nowhere near the gast tank prime Johnson had, not even remotely close. And also Jeffries although far past prime, touted as one of the strongest heavyweights ever could not deal with Johnson's strength and called him the strongest man he ever faced.

And no, they are not the exact same 'grabbing techniques' lol. Wlad is very big and strong, it's raw strength. But this is not comparable to a grappling master. Johnson's era was when greco roman wrestling was still a part of the sport despite the MQR rules. He could apply leverage and his arms and torso in ways that Wladimir wouldn't understand. All the while delivering damaging blows. Where is Wlad's inside boxing games? In the toilet. He's not gonna stay on the outside and mid range to pepper Johnson. No he would play right into his game, because Wlad can no longer fight without grabbing out of fear.

So then, a couple of rounds of getting smothered by Johnson and realising he can't GRAB his way out of danger like he's been doing in our time for years, Wlad's infamous fatique will show up again and it would be a matter of time before Johnson finishes him off.

Viali however is a whole nother ballgame. He would beat Johnson, IMO. But this is where my MMA knowledge comes in handy. I am extremely confident in beleiving Jack Johnson would defeat Wladimir Klitschko. Hopefully billeau comes in to chime in, he is smarter than me when it comes to going into details about this.

Wlad would be even more dangerous if he were allowed to hold and hit today ,JJ is as poor technical offensive fighter as ive seen if he wasnt holding ...Wlad also has judo background which is why he outmaneuvers and out positions them ,who are you trying to fool selling JJ over Wlad ?JJ did nothing but defeat mainly 165 pounders to 175 pounders get real.

[LacedUp]

That is an unfair example of one of Johnson's fights(past prime, not at top shape etc.) and yet it actually proves my point even more. Did you know Johnson won nearly every single round of the what was it, 28 rounds that he fought against Willard before tiring out in the extreme heat and getting sparked?

For most of the earlier goings in the fight he was the one outgrappling Willard the much bigger man. And Willard is also a much better grappler than Wladimir. Wladimir has nowhere near the gast tank prime Johnson had, not even remotely close. And also Jeffries although far past prime, touted as one of the strongest heavyweights ever could not deal with Johnson's strength and called him the strongest man he ever faced.

And no, they are not the exact same 'grabbing techniques' lol. Wlad is very big and strong, it's raw strength. But this is not comparable to a grappling master. Johnson's era was when greco roman wrestling was still a part of the sport despite the MQR rules. He could apply leverage and his arms and torso in ways that Wladimir wouldn't understand. All the while delivering damaging blows. Where is Wlad's inside boxing games? In the toilet. He's not gonna stay on the outside and mid range to pepper Johnson. No he would play right into his game, because Wlad can no longer fight without grabbing out of fear.

So then, a couple of rounds of getting smothered by Johnson and realising he can't GRAB his way out of danger like he's been doing in our time for years, Wlad's infamous fatique will show up again and it would be a matter of time before Johnson finishes him off.

Viali however is a whole nother ballgame. He would beat Johnson, IMO. But this is where my MMA knowledge comes in handy. I am extremely confident in beleiving Jack Johnson would defeat Wladimir Klitschko. Hopefully billeau comes in to chime in, he is smarter than me when it comes to going into details about this.

How can you say he was past his prime when he was a heavy favourite and was only a couple of years removed from his greatest win? He went on unbeaten 10 years even though on lower level, and fought on for 20 more years if not more.

Did he win every single round? I don't remember that. I've seen the fight or large parts of it before, although it was a while back, and I thought it was a pretty even fight. However, you say it's 28 rounds and yes, it probably was, however it's not like it was 28 rounds of boxing today. They threw a couple of shots per round in those days. You can't compare that to today at all.

Yes in those days Jeffries was a strong man. Also, it wasn't exactly a prime Jeffries he was facing let's get that straight. The man had to lose like 200 lbs in 6 months to get ready for Johnson.

I don't agree with the Willard part. Wladimir is a much better grabber than Willard - and the much better fighter in general. Willard was literally dead average - as a fighter and as a champion. Why would Wlad not stay outside? We agree he has no inside game, but he wouldn't need to use it against Johnson.

Does Johnson have a good game on the outside? It was good but not great. Wladimir has a better jab and a better power shot with the right hand or the left hook - not to mention he's just as quick and much bigger and longer.

Johnson has never beaten anyone close to Wladimir's size or class. The same cannot be said the other way around. Add to that, he wasn't even a great KO artist, I just don't think it's realistic to say Johnson would beat Wlad.

[BKM-2010]

How can you say he was past his prime when he was a heavy favourite and was only a couple of years removed from his greatest win? He went on unbeaten 10 years even though on lower level, and fought on for 20 more years if not more.

Did he win every single round? I don't remember that. I've seen the fight or large parts of it before, although it was a while back, and I thought it was a pretty even fight. However, you say it's 28 rounds and yes, it probably was, however it's not like it was 28 rounds of boxing today. They threw a couple of shots per round in those days. You can't compare that to today at all.

Ok you really gotta rewatch that fight, or rather one of the docu's that describe it as they show the limited footage. You don't even remember that Johnson was past his prime, this is very common knowledge. He was about 38, not in peak conditioning etc. And again, he won almost every round of the 26 rounds in the humid heat and before Johnson started to tire you can see from the footage that he is the one pushing the bigger man around and picking him apart.

Like I said this fight actually makes Johnson's case against Wlad much greater, not worse like you think. The way this fight went, what do you see, you think Wlad would outlast JJ and stop him late? Not a chance, he'd need an early KO.

I don't agree with the Willard part. Wladimir is a much better grabber than Willard

Willard was a grappler, Wlad is a grabber. There is a big difference between the two. No 'grabber' has a hope against grapplers like Johnson, he simply plays into his hands. Example of a good grabber however is Lennox: Deadly uppercuts on the inside. Wlad has no inside game whatsoever and gets away with clinching because of corrupt refs and opponents being smaller and weaker.

and the much better fighter in general. Willard was literally dead average - as a fighter and as a champion. Why would Wlad not stay outside? We agree he has no inside game, but he wouldn't need to use it against Johnson.

Does Johnson have a good game on the outside? It was good but not great. Wladimir has a better jab and a better power shot with the right hand or the left hook - not to mention he's just as quick and much bigger and longer.

I agree Wlad has a better outside game. He should, with that reach. That wasn't Johnson's fighting range. But which Wlad are you talking about? Do you honestly think that todays Wladimir can go a whole fight without having to resort to grabbing out of fear?

Johnson has never beaten anyone close to Wladimir's size or class. The same cannot be said the other way around.

It is not practical to compare such different era's. When Johnson lost his title literally a hundred years have passed since 3 weeks ago. I do not favor Johnson against Ali, Tyson, Frazier, Holyfield, Lewis, Bowe, Vitali etc. etc.

But Wlad is an anomoly. A lamb trapped in the body of a Lion. The fear and reliance of grabbing opponents and lack of adjustments is something that would play into Johnson's hands.

[Bull24]

I think he might have made it into the top twenty all time.

[soul_survivor]

Wlad the universally recognized Heavyweight Champion of the World..

How good is he?
Where do you rank him historically?
How dominant has he been?

Very, very dominant, no heavyweight for almost a decade has really looked close to dethroning him. Yes Peter came close at times and a couple other fighters hurried him a bit but Wlad has become a defensive wiz, his ability to keep the fight at range is second to none and his size and power just can't be matched by anyone. Wlad is a truly dominant, era-defining champion...a great in an age of mediocrity, which is probably what will let him down all time.

Things do seem to be changing, Fury and Wilder are obvious opponents that Wlad should, nay, must fight. These fights will help him transcend two generations of heavyweights. Let's hope these fights happen by next year.

[TBear]

I never understood how fans today can say a fighter is universally recognized as world champion when the fighter has a portion of a title and never held all of the titles. Is this a shortcut to praising champions?