Jimmy Ellis: The forgotten Champ

[sonnyboyx2]

How about Carnera vs Loughran?

That was extremes, yet with nearly 120lbs weight advantage and 7ins height advantage, 4yrs age advantage. Carnera who scored more knock outs than any Heavyweight Champion in History, could not KO the smaller more skilled fighter. Yet others of similar size and weight had done.

[juggernaut666]

You are a size geek, your whole argument of debating is based on size.. this guy beats that guy because his **** is bigger..what a load of shyte !
We have had giants in boxing since the turn of the 2oth century.. size does not and never has beaten skills.. give me one single example of when size has beaten skill in boxing.

Stephmc is the one who said Ellis would have been in an ALL TIME GREAT had their been lighter divisions particularly a cruiser weight because at least that poster is a realist ,not someone who praises a no skill giant like Carnera ,as only a fool would ...


Most dominant era champions for the most part had size advantages almost all the time along with the skill, only in Louis's era were there a few guys who were overly big but couldn't box like ...CARNERA ,if you want a modern example of a bigger guy with less skill beating a more sound fighter just watch Bowe vs Holyfield ........................

[sonnyboyx2]

Stephmc is the one who said Ellis would have been in an ALL TIME GREAT had their been lighter divisions particularly a cruiser weight because at least that poster is a realist ,not someone who praises a no skill giant like Carnera ,as only a fool would ...


Most dominant era champions for the most part had size advantages almost all the time along with the skill, only in Louis's era were there a few guys who were overly big but couldn't box like ...CARNERA ,if you want a modern example of a bigger guy with less skill beating a more sound fighter just watch Bowe vs Holyfield ........................

we had behemoths from the days of Jack Johnson & Jack Dempsey..every single one of them were cumbersome. Just look at Lennox Lewis who had the footwork of a camel, Vitali Klitschko was so robotic and slow, he resembled The Tin Man off Wizard of OZ..Jess Willard, Ernie Terrell, Gerry Cooney who stood 6ft 7in was pummeled and destroyed by speed, skill and accuracy of Michael Spinks. Lewis was poleaxed TWICE by guys who stood 3ins shorter. Willard was destroyed by the vastly smaller Dempsey, suffering injuries never seen in a prize ring since that night...Rid**** Bowe was the most Skilled Big Guy of all times..Bowe's KO victory over Holyfield was due to Hepatitis and the punishment Bowe received in that fight ended him as a top fighter.

[juggernaut666]

we had behemoths from the days of Jack Johnson & Jack Dempsey..every single one of them were cumbersome. Just look at Lennox Lewis who had the footwork of a camel, Vitali Klitschko was so robotic and slow, he resembled The Tin Man off Wizard of OZ..Jess Willard, Ernie Terrell, Gerry Cooney who stood 6ft 7in was pummeled and destroyed by speed, skill and accuracy of Michael Spinks. Lewis was poleaxed TWICE by guys who stood 3ins shorter. Willard was destroyed by the vastly smaller Dempsey, suffering injuries never seen in a prize ring since that night...Rid**** Bowe was the most Skilled Big Guy of all times..Bowe's KO victory over Holyfield was due to Hepatitis and the punishment Bowe received in that fight ended him as a top fighter.

JJ a 6'0 200 pounder a giant????Maybe fighting the 160 pound bums he plastered ,the first real HW who outsized him he got knocked out.Lewis had good footwork why would he need to be nimble anyway he was an imposing 250 pounder wiho controlled fights with a tremendous jab,surely the great Carnera would beat him too though right?Cooney also leveled Ron Lyle who leveled Foreman,,,you can do a round abourt all you like if you think Willard ,Carnera or Baer would even beat Spinks you really are on good stuff,as they obviously lacked the boxing abilities of Cooney or Holmes.Holyfield vs a Bowe was a big vs little guy no matter what excuse you wish to use the differance in that fight was they both had actual boxing skills... have fun with your world beater Carnera who resembled frankenstein.

[stephenmc]

I think people are forgetting that Ellis moved straight from middleweight to heavyweight,that is a huge difference,no matter what the era. that is like taking GGG, Lee, cotto etc... and putting them in against klitschko, Wilder and so on. Now obviously he moved up alot in weight also, but could you see any middleweight today jumping from middle to heavy?? the fact is he was a very talented boxer,remember that was one of the best eras that boxing has ever seen,and he still managed to win a world title after moving up from middleweight, now nobody would of really took notice over the whole ali fiasco at the time. Now im saying if their was a cruserweight division back then it would of suited ellis,he would of easily made the cruserweight limit,he wouldnt of had to take punches from ARGUABLY some of the top 10 punchers in the heavyweight divsion, he would have had enough skill to carry him through fights where he wasnt giving away so much ie weight,height..

[stephenmc]

In later years, Ellis had to battle this evil demon for almost as long as his pro career lasted.

It’s not just about memory loss. It’s a horrible disease for the person diagnosed with it – a daily life of constant anxiety and confusion.

Everyone entering a ring should be aware of what the consequences might be.

yes i agree, i think the documentary "after the last round" is somthing that all boxers should watch to make them more aware of the dangers they could and very well might face after a career in fighting

[juggernaut666]

I think people are forgetting that Ellis moved straight from middleweight to heavyweight,that is a huge difference,no matter what the era. that is like taking GGG, Lee, cotto etc... and putting them in against klitschko, Wilder and so on. Now obviously he moved up alot in weight also, but could you see any middleweight today jumping from middle to heavy?? the fact is he was a very talented boxer,remember that was one of the best eras that boxing has ever seen,and he still managed to win a world title after moving up from middleweight, now nobody would of really took notice over the whole ali fiasco at the time. Now im saying if their was a cruserweight division back then it would of suited ellis,he would of easily made the cruserweight limit,he wouldnt of had to take punches from ARGUABLY some of the top 10 punchers in the heavyweight divsion, he would have had enough skill to carry him through fights where he wasnt giving away so much ie weight,height..

Exactly ,so many people trying to down play the weight aspect ,not taking anything away from Ellis as stated Patterson was a former 160 pounder himself and i think he beat Ellis but both would be better cruiser weights for the reasons you mentioned .

[sonnyboyx2]

JJ a 6'0 200 pounder a giant????Maybe fighting the 160 pound bums he plastered ,the first real HW who outsized him he got knocked out.Lewis had good footwork why would he need to be nimble anyway he was an imposing 250 pounder wiho controlled fights with a tremendous jab,surely the great Carnera would beat him too though right?Cooney also leveled Ron Lyle who leveled Foreman,,,you can do a round abourt all you like if you think Willard ,Carnera or Baer would even beat Spinks you really are on good stuff,as they obviously lacked the boxing abilities of Cooney or Holmes.Holyfield vs a Bowe was a big vs little guy no matter what excuse you wish to use the differance in that fight was they both had actual boxing skills... have fun with your world beater Carnera who resembled frankenstein.

Maybe you can tell me the "FIGHTS" which i can watch and see the "Controlling Jab" of Lewis????

or will this be another point which you avoid.......

[sonnyboyx2]

Exactly ,so many people trying to down play the weight aspect ,not taking anything away from Ellis as stated Patterson was a former 160 pounder himself and i think he beat Ellis but both would be better cruiser weights for the reasons you mentioned .

But Patterson due to his skills and boxing ability is viewed as being one of the greatest Heavyweights who ever lived... Better than every behemoth you care to mention, "Lewis, Bowe, Carnera, Willard, Terrell, Cooney, Klitschko's etc etc etc".....

[juggernaut666]

But Patterson due to his skills and boxing ability is viewed as being one of the greatest Heavyweights who ever lived... Better than every behemoth you care to mention, "Lewis, Bowe, Carnera, Willard, Terrell, Cooney, Klitschko's etc etc etc".....

Yea thats why Patterson holds the record for being knocked down "TWENTY " times as HW champion for inability to take true hard punches ,the thought of a Klitchko hitting him....