Why todays era is better than past eras. Discussion.

[{Darko}]

I've been compiling lists of the number of 'world level' fights and opponents that top fighters from the past and present have faced during their careers. Here is a list of the total numbers of opponents that the following fighters faced in their careers:

CANZONERI 43
ROBINSON 41
IKE WILLIAMS 36
ARCHIE MOORE 35
ARMSTRONG 35
JOE LOUIS 34
EZZARD CHARLES 33
JC CHAVEZ 32
ROY JONES JR 32
ARGUELLO 31
DURAN 29
DE LA HOYA 28
HOPKINS 28
MAYWEATHER 27
PACQUIAO 27
PEP 26
BIVINS 26
WHITAKER 24
LAMOTTA 24
**** TIGER 24
TRINIDAD 24
FOSTER 23
MCLARNIN 23
COTTO 23
JOFRE 22
KHAOSAI GALAXY 22
MARSHALL 22
NAPOLES 21
HAGLER 20
H. WILLIAMS 19
FENECH 18
FULLMER 17
JUNG-KOO CHANG 15
MARTINEZ 15
SPINKS 15
MONZON 14
BARNEY ROSS 13
CERDAN 13
WATANABE 12
CALZAGHE 12
KALAMBAY 12
VALDEZ 12
ZALE 9
PENDER 6

I just went through Charles's record and counted 48 fights against world level opponents. More importantly he had series against guys like Moore, Bivins, Johnson, Burley. Listing some numbers offers zero insight the true quality of those supposed world level opponents if you're comparing who somebody like Charles ran through versus Mayweather, Foster, Hopkins, Jones. Not to mention your worthless numbers aren't even accurate.

You thinking Holman Williams only faced 19 world level opponents his entire career should be enough for any knowledgeable boxing fan to automatically disregard your opinion.

[joeandthebums]

EZZARD CHARLES 33

I just went through Charles's record and counted 48 fights against world level opponents.

Would you both be able to list those opponents? Be good to see a comparison.

[{Darko}]

Would you both be able to list those opponents? Be good to see a comparison.

I just scanned Holman Williams and counted 39 world class opponents.......on the first page of three for his record. Yet this bozo claims 19 his entire career. I'm also sure his 7 fight series against Burley is comparable to the monsters Floyd fought.

[joeandthebums]

I just scanned Holman Williams and counted 39 world class opponents.......on the first page of three for his record. Yet this bozo claims 19 his entire career.

Skimming without checking their career stages (which may raise or lower number) and some I'm less familiar with I got 14 for the period July '42 to June '48, the same page as you.

[{Darko}]

Skimming without checking their career stages (which may raise or lower number) and some I'm less familiar with I got 14 for the period July '42 to June '48, the same page as you.

Well that speaks to how unfamiliar you both are with the era. I won't list duplicate names but look over and see how many times he faced these guys multiple times

burley
cocoa
tunero
basora
marshall
booker
belloise
chase
wade
lytell
moore
satterfield
cerdan
lamotta

Williams record is a whose who of the Murderers Row and his fights against those opponents account for 39 fights on the first page alone.

the only guy who is arguable that i included is joe carter but considering he had multiple wins over cocoa kid, wade, draws with williams and basora and two split decision losses to marshall i have no problem classifying him as world class.

[Humean]

I just went through Charles's record and counted 48 fights against world level opponents. More importantly he had series against guys like Moore, Bivins, Johnson, Burley. Listing some numbers offers zero insight the true quality of those supposed world level opponents if you're comparing who somebody like Charles ran through versus Mayweather, Foster, Hopkins, Jones. Not to mention your worthless numbers aren't even accurate.

You thinking Holman Williams only faced 19 world level opponents his entire career should be enough for any knowledgeable boxing fan to automatically disregard your opinion.

I just scanned Holman Williams and counted 39 world class opponents.......on the first page of three for his record. Yet this bozo claims 19 his entire career. I'm also sure his 7 fight series against Burley is comparable to the monsters Floyd fought.

My list was the number of 'world level' opponents, not 'world level' fights. My number of 'world level' opponents for Charles was 33 but the number of fights that I have recorded is 57. As for Holman Williams the number of opponents is a seemingly low 19 but his number of fights is a very large 57, on a par with Charles. Holman Williams fought the same opponents time and time again.

Also my list was not trying to compare the relative quality of opponents from different eras but simply how many opponents and fights could be considered 'world level' by the standards of their own era.

Would you both be able to list those opponents? Be good to see a comparison.

I'd be happy to. Borderline refers to opponents that I thought someone could reasonable say were 'world level' but that a case could also reasonably be made the other way. How accurate do you think it is and do you think my judgements were too ******* or too conservative?

Ezzard Charles

BORDERLINE WORLD LEVEL
Teddy Yarosz, Kid Tunero, Sam Baroudi, Joe Kahut, Cesar Silverio Brion, Bob Satterfield, Charley Norkus, John Holman, Pat McMurtry, Harry Matthews

WORLD LEVEL
Ken Overlin, Anton Christoforidis, Charley Burley, Jose Basora, Joey Maxim, Jimmy Bivins, Lloyd Marshall, Archie Moore, Oakland BIlly Smith, Elmer Ray, Joe Baksi, Jersey Joe Walcott, Gus Lesnevich, Pat Valentino, Joe Louis, Nick Barone, Lee Oma, Rex Layne, Nino Valdes, Harold Johnson, Rocky Marciano, Paul Andrews, Tommy Jackson

Holman Williams

BORDERLINE WORLD LEVEL
Michele Palermo, Steve Mamakos, Joe Carter, Bob Satterfield

WORLD LEVEL
Cocoa Kid, Saverio Turiello, Jack Portney, Charley Burley, Kid Tunero, Jose Basora, Lloyd Marshall, Eddie Booker, Steve Belloise, Jack Chase, Aaron Wade, Bert Lytell, Archie Moore, Marcel Cerdan, Jake LaMotta

[joeandthebums]

Well that speaks to how unfamiliar you both are with the era. I won't list duplicate names but look over and see how many times he faced these guys multiple times

burley
cocoa
tunero
basora
marshall
booker
belloise
chase
wade
lytell
moore
satterfield
cerdan
lamotta

You listed 14...

[joeandthebums]

Ezzard Charles

BORDERLINE WORLD LEVEL
Teddy Yarosz, Kid Tunero, Sam Baroudi, Joe Kahut, Cesar Silverio Brion, Bob Satterfield, Charley Norkus, John Holman, Pat McMurtry, Harry Matthews

WORLD LEVEL
Ken Overlin, Anton Christoforidis, Charley Burley, Jose Basora, Joey Maxim, Jimmy Bivins, Lloyd Marshall, Archie Moore, Oakland BIlly Smith, Elmer Ray, Joe Baksi, Jersey Joe Walcott, Gus Lesnevich, Pat Valentino, Joe Louis, Nick Barone, Lee Oma, Rex Layne, Nino Valdes, Harold Johnson, Rocky Marciano, Paul Andrews, Tommy Jackson

Holman Williams

BORDERLINE WORLD LEVEL
Michele Palermo, Steve Mamakos, Joe Carter, Bob Satterfield

WORLD LEVEL
Cocoa Kid, Saverio Turiello, Jack Portney, Charley Burley, Kid Tunero, Jose Basora, Lloyd Marshall, Eddie Booker, Steve Belloise, Jack Chase, Aaron Wade, Bert Lytell, Archie Moore, Marcel Cerdan, Jake LaMotta

Thanks I'll have a good look when I get a chance.

[{Darko}]

You listed 14...

yes which account for 39 fights which is what i thought his numbers indicated

I've been compiling lists of the number of 'world level' fights and opponents that top fighters from the past and present have faced during their careers. Here is a list of the total numbers of opponents that the following fighters faced in their careers:

that's what i read which lead me to think the numbers indicated fights not fighters. i apologize humean and yes you're classification of world level appears rather spot on.

number of fights rather than opponents would be a more accurate reflection considering how common series were as opposed to today.

[Humean]

that's what i read which lead me to think the numbers indicated fights not fighters. i apologize humean and yes you're classification of world level appears rather spot on.

number of fights rather than opponents would be a more accurate reflection considering how common series were as opposed to today.

Reading that back I suppose I was a bit unclear. I posted the number of opponents rather than fights because I thought it was more related to the topic of the number of active fighters. Anyway here is the list of fights:

CANZONERI 72
ARCHIE MOORE 67
ROBINSON 66
IKE WILLIAMS 58
H. WILLIAMS 57
EZZARD CHARLES 57
ARMSTRONG 56
BIVINS 47
LOUIS 43
LAMOTTA 43
DURAN 36
JC CHAVEZ 36
TIGER 36
PEP 36
ROY JONES JR 36
ARGUELLO 34
MCLARNIN 34
MARSHALL 34
HOPKINS 34
PACQUIAO 34
HAGLER 30
DE LA HOYA 30
MAYWEATHER 30
NAPOLES 28
WHITAKER 27
FULLMER 27
JOFRE 27
FOSTER 26
TRINIDAD 24
COTTO 24
KHAOSAI GALAXY 23
MONZON 22
JUNG-KOO CHANG 21
BARNEY ROSS 21
CERDAN 21
FENECH 20
SPINKS 17
MARTINEZ 17
VALDEZ 15
KALAMBAY 14
WATANABE 13
CALZAGHE 13
ZALE 13
PENDER 9