Willie Pep considered greater than Sandy Saddler...

[Rockin']

wheres kid chocolate on that list?..........Rockin'

[LuKahnLi]

What must not be ignored in this debate is the fact that Saddler fought Pep near the end of the latter's career. Pep's fights against Saddler came AFTER the plane crash in which he suffered serious injuries.

[J !]

wheres kid chocolate on that list?..........Rockin'

obviously not there. where would have him mate?

[J !]

right no resposne so i'll offer you a reason or 2: Firstly while being very talented and geting up for the big fights Chocolate struggled sometimes with no namers.
He may deserve a place on the top ten though these things are subjective in my view he is fringe and if it was a top 15 definitely would but the fact he never held the featheweight champ of the world losing to battling Battlino counts against him.

yes i know he won the super feather (or junior lightweight title as it was then) but this title was not recognised at the time and was in comparison against inferior opposition.

trust that answers your question.

[smokeyjackson]

i think Pep was the greater fighter, Willie Pep was the first fighter i ever heard about, my Grandfather used to tell me about his fights when i was a kid and that what got me interested in boxing, he used to love telling me about the time the great Willie Pep won a round without even throwing a punch( maybe a myth but that was his favourite story ) Saddler was great too but ive got to pick Willie Pep or my Grandfather would turn in his grave.

[dmar]

yeah interesting point made there, I think a lot of it has to with the pre and post crash willie pep. Dont forge the guy wasnt supposed to even walk again let alone box after the air crash! He actually had one leg substantially shorter than the other and you can imagine for a defensive master this was some obstacle to over come this was in 1947 he still managed to beat fellow all time great saddler with his handicap in 1950.

And many other fighters.

Saddler for what its worth was a murderous puncher but had no where near the skills of pep, he was however peps nemisis to an extent. (bit like frazier was Ali's)

The other reason that Saddler often is overlooked is that he had half the fights Pep did, still a mightily impressive 145-16-2 (103 kos!!!!) vs peps record of 230-11-1 (63 by ko).
So the records and ko percentage themselves tell a story its brawler vs boxer!

Pep is still alive well into his 80s now, suffering a little forom alzheimers a believe but generrally still fairly sharp, I love this quote by the great man on his life

"My two great weaknesses were slow horses and fast women".

Legend.

For my money probaly the best two featherweights ever to draw breath.
1. Pep
2. Saddler
3. Salvador Sanchez
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Azumah Nelson.

hope this is of interest to you and helps answer the question posed .

excellent post.i totaly agree..and your top 4 is on the money..if i had to have a poll of the most underated fighters of all time..saddler would head the list followed by charles.

[brownpimp88]

pep wasnt in his prime when he lost to saddler
dempsey wasnt in his prime when he lost to tunney
frazier wasnt in his prime when he lost foreman
tyson wasnt in his prime when he lost to douglas
chavez wasnt in his prime when he lost to whitaker
liston wasnt in his prime when he lost to ali

Damn they are never in thier primes, right. The fans of this sport are a joke, how many excuses can you guys make. Sandy Saddler beat him, nuff said. Now shut the **** up.

[Kid Achilles]

Buster douglas beat Tyson, nuff said.

Evander holyfield beat Tyson twice, nuff said.

Lennox Lewis beat Tyson, nuff said.

Danny Williams beat Tyson, nuff said.

Kevin McBride beat Tyson, nuff said.

Tyson was in his prime for all these fights so shut the **** up.

[brownpimp88]

Buster douglas beat Tyson, nuff said.

Evander holyfield beat Tyson twice, nuff said.

Lennox Lewis beat Tyson, nuff said.

Danny Williams beat Tyson, nuff said.

Kevin McBride beat Tyson, nuff said.

If the plane crash bothered willie pep so much, how the **** did he win the featherweight belt again, was the division that ****ty back then. Better yet he was beating up everybody till he met saddler, sandy has his number whether you like it or not. Three times out of 4 ****in fights, nuff said.

The only way pep can win is by a narrow decision, otherwise he gets knocked the **** out by sandy saddler.

[Kid Achilles]

If being past his prime effected him so much, how did Tyson beat guys like Ruddock and Bruno? Did the division suck that much?