did ali get parkinsons.........

[PRINCEKOOL]

Parkinson's syndrome is far more likely to be caused by head trauma than body blows. It's linked to brain stem/spine and dopamine production.

That said, I've studied Ali for decades. Fights, interviews, documentaries etc. The first symptoms seemed to arise after the third Frazier fight. In rounds 5 and 6 Ali took some sickening left hooks.

It is strange to watch, but it seemed that from the third Frazier fight onward, decline seemed to set in almost fight by fight. He was still great, but you'd catch that muscle rigidity, blank stare and horseness of the voice more and more often as the years in the late 70s moved on. The head punches would almost certainly have accelerated the symptoms too. Especially the Shavers fight in 1977!

I think you are correct, it was his vibrant personality which changed also. Muhammad Ali had other health issues which damaged him, and probably bad medical advice at that time. 'I believe if he would not of took the Larry Homes fight' he may have recovered.

'The entire camp of that fight probably caused him the most damage'.

Muhammad Ali was one courage's and tough fighter, even when he was seriously ill 'Larry Holmes could not stop him, and he very nearly beat Trevor Berbick' I believe recently David Haye spoke about the Trevor Berbick fight, and how well Ali did in that fight considering his health issues etc'

[johnbook]

I think you are correct, it was his vibrant personality which changed also. Muhammad Ali had other health issues which damaged him, and probably bad medical advice at that time. 'I believe if he would not of took the Larry Homes fight' he may have recovered.

'The entire camp of that fight probably caused him the most damage'.

Muhammad Ali was one courage's and tough fighter, even when he was seriously ill 'Larry Holmes could not stop him, and he very nearly beat Trevor Berbick' I believe recently David Haye spoke about the Trevor Berbick fight, and how well Ali did in that fight considering his health issues etc'

Yes it was Holmes who did the most damage. Ali, that night was incapable of dodging his punches. Holmes tries to spin it...

[QueensburyRules]

- -Holmes ain't a heavy puncher, yet in spite of the prefight abuse heaped on him, recognized a lamb led to slaughter and by all accounts was pulling punches and imploring the ref to stop the outrage.

I refused to watch the fight because even from afar, I had been mentally documenting his career. Never saw the Berbick fight and don't watch death and murder vids on youtube.

As I mentioned, his decline in the Wepner fight stood as a grim reaper might over his soon to be victim. This was not the claimant as the best heavywt in history but rather a grossly enfeebled man whose motormouth kept him propped up far beyond his expiration date.

But he had become a boxing industry, so they propped him up for years as the unwashed public ate it up. Sadly he became worse than those old punch drunks he swore to never be.

[Sugarj]

I think you are correct, it was his vibrant personality which changed also. Muhammad Ali had other health issues which damaged him, and probably bad medical advice at that time. 'I believe if he would not of took the Larry Homes fight' he may have recovered.

'The entire camp of that fight probably caused him the most damage'.

Muhammad Ali was one courage's and tough fighter, even when he was seriously ill 'Larry Holmes could not stop him, and he very nearly beat Trevor Berbick' I believe recently David Haye spoke about the Trevor Berbick fight, and how well Ali did in that fight considering his health issues etc'

I watch the Holmes vs Ali documentary a couple of times a year. I hate the fight, but enjoy the build up. Ali still had bags of charisma, but his speech was definitely showing signs of decline.....and there was muscle rigidity when doing roadwork.

If he didn't have the thyroid pills in the build up I think he might have gone the distance with Holmes, but definitely a decision loss. Reflexes were not great. Shame he was so weak, he looked spent after round 1.

As for Berbick; Ali certainly did win rounds despite being even more in decline. It is near impossible to understand him in the post fight interview. Very sad....

[PRINCEKOOL]

I watch the Holmes vs Ali documentary a couple of times a year. I hate the fight, but enjoy the build up. Ali still had bags of charisma, but his speech was definitely showing signs of decline.....and there was muscle rigidity when doing roadwork.

If he didn't have the thyroid pills in the build up I think he might have gone the distance with Holmes, but definitely a decision loss. Reflexes were not great. Shame he was so weak, he looked spent after round 1.

As for Berbick; Ali certainly did win rounds despite being even more in decline. It is near impossible to understand him in the post fight interview. Very sad....

Yes he still had a lot of charisma, to be honest his personality probably never changed 'He just had trouble expressing it due to illness' very courage's in those last two fights.

In some ways he did go out like a gladiator, he was not smashed out on his back 'And in defeat his greatest strength was evident to see? His courage and will to win'.

Maybe Mike Tyson was right in saying, that Muhammad Ali was literally willing to die for the course.

[Sugarj]

Yes he still had a lot of charisma, to be honest his personality probably never changed 'He just had trouble expressing it due to illness' very courage's in those last two fights.

In some ways he did go out like a gladiator, he was not smashed out on his back 'And in defeat his greatest strength was evident to see? His courage and will to win'.

Maybe Mike Tyson was right in saying, that Muhammad Ali was literally willing to die for the course.

Great to see Tyson as respectful as always. I'm glad they were never rivals.

Ali fought for more than himself....I think he genuinely believed in his religion and felt that he wouldn't ever be so severely damaged in the ring. Very sad indeed.

[ecto55]

I don't think its a mystery....have a look at his boxrec record...if you know the names it's a boggling record to behold.

Coupled with all the sparring....some shonky medical advice at the end of his career and continuing to fight at an age when any man's body is starting to deminish (let alone a world class boxer)....it'd be a miracle if he wasn't a wreck.

From memory, I think the diagnosis was 'boxing-induced Parkinson's like symptoms'.

I could be wrong, but I always understood that that was a polite diagnosis saying that Ali had puglistia dementia (which leaves its sufferer with Parkinson's like symptoms) rather than actually having Parkinson's disease.

If no one else has a better recollection of this, I'll track down my Ali book by Thomas Hauser...goes into the diagnosis and its causes in depth.

[QueensburyRules]

I don't think its a mystery....have a look at his boxrec record...if you know the names it's a boggling record to behold.

Coupled with all the sparring....some shonky medical advice at the end of his career and continuing to fight at an age when any man's body is starting to deminish (let alone a world class boxer)....it'd be a miracle if he wasn't a wreck.

From memory, I think the diagnosis was 'boxing-induced Parkinson's like symptoms'.

I could be wrong, but I always understood that that was a polite diagnosis saying that Ali had puglistia dementia (which leaves its sufferer with Parkinson's like symptoms) rather than actually having Parkinson's disease.

If no one else has a better recollection of this, I'll track down my Ali book by Thomas Hauser...goes into the diagnosis and its causes in depth.

- -Even the best docs can be wrong, but again anyone with half an adequate brain function could see see how terribly "OFF" he was post Foreman. Smartest thing Doc Ferdie and Herbert did for him was steering him away from the rematch to further prop up his career, but after the Wepner disaster, that's the time for a couple of Three lite defenses and retirement.

[ecto55]

- -Even the best docs can be wrong, but again anyone with half an adequate brain function could see see how terribly "OFF" he was post Foreman. Smartest thing Doc Ferdie and Herbert did for him was steering him away from the rematch to further prop up his career, but after the Wepner disaster, that's the time for a couple of Three lite defenses and retirement.

Yeah, but everyone loved him so much and he'd done the impossible before....and all those closest to him (the camp parasites / followers) had livelihoods to make off of him...what else were they going to do...work for a living?

Truly tragic storyline.

The rubbish doctor I mentioned wasn't Ferdie Pacheco (average fight commentator / analyst but I think he was a very good human being)...but rather the doctor that came in pre-Holmes fight and was giving Ali powerful thyroid medications as ameans of getting Ali's weight down.

From memory I think Pacheco actually quit the Ali camp because of this 'doctors' presence...or it may have have the way the Ali camp kept pushing Ali into / through the Holmes fight.

Horrible stuff...and yeah, Ali was physically in trouble long before that.