Why did Hagler never move up to 175lb?

[BennyST]

Not a bad post Ray...although fighters do not have 40 hours to rehydrate these days.

I dunno about Hagler fighting non title bouts just for his fans lol you must be naive to believe it was anything other than to keep busy and make some extra cash.

BTW what does Hagler's fan connection have to do with my question?

Do you understand the difference between the time periods? Today its a given that fighters move up after a while to find new challenges. That was not done or even thought of much then. It just wasn't an issue. There was always more challenges to the crown because there was more fighters and more depth.

It's also a weight issue. Today most fighters start at weights they simply don't belong at, then move because of the different weigh in rules.

When someone does move up today, they are often moving into divisions they should actually be at, hence why its easier for fighters to do it now.

It's just a different time where moving up for new challengers wasn't given much importance. You're thinking with the outlook of a fan today, not then.

[soul_survivor]

Do you understand the difference between the time periods? Today its a given that fighters move up after a while to find new challenges. That was not done or even thought of much then. It just wasn't an issue. There was always more challenges to the crown because there was more fighters and more depth.

It's also a weight issue. Today most fighters start at weights they simply don't belong at, then move because of the different weigh in rules.

When someone does move up today, they are often moving into divisions they should actually be at, hence why its easier for fighters to do it now.

It's just a different time where moving up for new challengers wasn't given much importance. You're thinking with the outlook of a fan today, not then.

that whole, "moving up in weight wasn't important back then" doesn't work for me. It's a ridiculous argument considering the careers of Armstrong, Greb, Duran, SRL, Hearns, Spinks, Robinson...I could go on and on.

[Ham Porter]

The weigh in time frame that's allowed today enables a fighter to adjust to different weight classes in a matter of a few years these days!
A young man can make 147 today and be able to rehydrate up to 20 pounds in the 40 hours between the scale and the bell. If this same fellow had to weigh in the morning of the fight it would be very difficult on him to go the distance (12 rds) at a high work rate.
Take a look at the fellows who jump around to different weights, their all 5'6' to 5'8" and can weigh in between 140 47 54....and even 160lbs.
Men like Manny are far and few in between, to start at 106 and be competitive up to 150 is amazing.
A young Floyd at 126 can mature to 140-47 as an adult and that's not uncommon.

Haglers body type allowed him to make weight and be strong with plenty of stamina and while Leonard and Hearns (both bigger than Hagler in height) moved up they did so because 147 was not attainable any more!
Hagler was fighting pro 3 years before Leonard went to the Olympics!!!
Leonard and Hearns were no where near their maturation points as pros when Hagler was the Champ. Champions are not dictated to especially active fighters like Hagler was.
He fought big fights in big arena's he also booked dates in smaller venues to promote the sport, he foght 10 rd. non title contests so his fans who couldn't afford to fly out to Vegas and drop that nut were able to see their favorite in person and meet and greet him. Marvin was a personal man who talked with his fans and encouraged kids to do the right things!

Hagler and the Petronelli's Bros did a lot on their own and a new to the business Bob Arum helped but he didn't have the clout he carries now back then. They made it on their own and they called their shots.
Everyone knew that Leonard would wait and hope for Hagler to move backwards with a few tuff fights. I don't blame Leonard because he couldn't beat a prime Hagler, you saw Leonard in with a prime Duran and Duran & Hagler have that determination and will in common along with good power and combination punching to the head & body! Leonard was smart, nothing wrong with that but he isn't rated above Hagler at 160. Leonard didn't fight the Brisco's and Monroe's and Antuofermo's he fought Benitez who couldn't break an egg and barely got by Hearns who was out boxing him for 10 rds.
Leonard & Hearns were terrific but neither of them dominate a division the way Hagler did. The way to do that is to know where you belong. Ray.

I'm just trying to figure out which notion is more laughably ******, the one that Hagler fought in smaller venues in non title fights purely for his fans (I'd love for you to list the fights Hagler had that didn't involve a title once he actually won it), or the idea that beating Briscoe, Monroe and Antuofermo is in any way comparable to wins over Benitez and Hearns.


Leonard doesn't need to be rated over Hagler at 160 because he's universally rated over him overall. He effectively did more over a three year period than Hagler managed over a thirteen year period.

[creekrat77]

I'm just trying to figure out which notion is more laughably ******, the one that Hagler fought in smaller venues in non title fights purely for his fans (I'd love for you to list the fights Hagler had that didn't involve a title once he actually won it), or the idea that beating Briscoe, Monroe and Antuofermo is in any way comparable to wins over Benitez and Hearns.


Leonard doesn't need to be rated over Hagler at 160 because he's universally rated over him overall. He effectively did more over a three year period than Hagler managed over a thirteen year period.

Yea but the reality of it is when Hagler and Leonard finally met up it was clear Hagler won the fight with sustained aggression and clean and affective punching. Leonard got the nod because he was the super star but more importantly threw flurries which ultimately were enough to steal the round from Hagler even though Leonard was running. Hagler also flattened the hitman not many can say that....................

[soul_survivor]

Yea but the reality of it is when Hagler and Leonard finally met up it was clear Hagler won the fight with sustained aggression and clean and affective punching. Leonard got the nod because he was the super star but more importantly threw flurries which ultimately were enough to steal the round from Hagler even though Leonard was running. Hagler also flattened the hitman not many can say that....................

Ridiculous, have u seen the fight? Hagler got frustrated by about round 4 or 5 and started throwing wide looping punches and srl just picked him off. Hagler wins as many fights that he legitimately lost as JMM lol

[just the facts]

I'm just trying to figure out which notion is more laughably ******, the one that Hagler fought in smaller venues in non title fights purely for his fans (I'd love for you to list the fights Hagler had that didn't involve a title once he actually won it), or the idea that beating Briscoe, Monroe and Antuofermo is in any way comparable to wins over Benitez and Hearns.


Leonard doesn't need to be rated over Hagler at 160 because he's universally rated over him overall. He effectively did more over a three year period than Hagler managed over a thirteen year period.

still waiting for one of those "well documented" links where either Spinks or Qawi called out Hagler

[just the facts]

I had to do some research into the matter, I came across certain sources, a simple Google search will show you all you need.



I wasn't around back then but let's not tell lies, multi-weight champions still meant a hell of a lot, just look at the respect and adjulation SRL, Duran and Hearns garnered in the 80s.

Or Armstrong much, much earlier than that, or the great Robinson...or Charles, Moore....I could literally make a list out of names who garnered great respect for stepping up in weight.

I don't get you dude. First, in an effort to criticize one of the most proud champions (champion not beltholder) of all time, you create a BS post about some fights at 175 that were never even mentioned back then. When I explain how it meant much more back then to be a long time champion than jumping around every couple of pounds, you call me a liar. This after you admit you weren't even around then. Is there a point to this other than a week effort to slight Hagler? If that is all there is, this was a very ignorant way to try it

[soul_survivor]

I don't get you dude. First, in an effort to criticize one of the most proud champions (champion not beltholder) of all time, you create a BS post about some fights at 175 that were never even mentioned back then. When I explain how it meant much more back then to be a long time champion than jumping around every couple of pounds, you call me a liar. This after you admit you weren't even around then. Is there a point to this other than a week effort to slight Hagler? If that is all there is, this was a very ignorant way to try it

No lies here, you said it didn't mean as much to jump around in weight back then, do you dispute what Armstrong, Moore, Charles, Robinson, SRL, Hearns, Duran and co did? Did it not mean anything? Did the boxing press turn away and call them bums? Do they rank higher than single division champs such as Hagler, Monzon, Maxim etc etc?

I'm not trying to discredit Hagler, I get it you're a fanboy and the truth hurts. I'm a Hagler fan too but I'm a boxing fan more, check out my top 50 list to see where I rank hagler and you can see I'm not what you probably think is a "hater". The point is, if he wanted to stretch his greatness, he could and should have tried the waters at 175, the question is, why didn't he?

Someone contradicted you by saying fights with then 175lb champions were mentioned at the time, I looked it up to see if he was telling the truth and he was.

What, out of all that, has hurt your feelings so much?

[young_robbed]

i'm sure it's already been said but since I haven't read through the thread, it was because he wasn't a big middleweight to begin with. you could say he was kind of a small, regular sized middleweight. he would have been totally undersized by the time he could have fought Qawi and Spinks at LHW, and plus he was already pretty old by then. there would have been no point.

[just the facts]

No lies here, you said it didn't mean as much to jump around in weight back then, do you dispute what Armstrong, Moore, Charles, Robinson, SRL, Hearns, Duran and co did? Did it not mean anything? Did the boxing press turn away and call them bums? Do they rank higher than single division champs such as Hagler, Monzon, Maxim etc etc?

I'm not trying to discredit Hagler, I get it you're a fanboy and the truth hurts. I'm a Hagler fan too but I'm a boxing fan more, check out my top 50 list to see where I rank hagler and you can see I'm not what you probably think is a "hater". The point is, if he wanted to stretch his greatness, he could and should have tried the waters at 175, the question is, why didn't he?

Someone contradicted you by saying fights with then 175lb champions were mentioned at the time, I looked it up to see if he was telling the truth and he was.

What, out of all that, has hurt your feelings so much?

OK, you're right and I'm wrong.

What was that whiney a$$ crybaby Hagler doing waiting around for those multi million dollar paydays vs Mugabi, Duran, Hearns and Leonard? Any real man would have went up the 15 plus pounds and fought Spinks or Qawi for hundreds or thousand of dollars. After all, everytime Spinks or Qawi won a fight, all they talked about was a Hagler matchup. Any talk of being the undisputed middleweight champion for years being important is pure BS, moving up in weight is what gets you respect. Marvin Hagler, what a puzzy!