Is Leonard More Skilled Than Duran

[rightsideup]

When will this myth that Duran was "moving up in weight" to fight Leonard die? He'd been fighting as a welterweight for over a two year period by that point and even before that had over a dozen or so fights as a junior welterweight in the years leading up to his official move up.

you are right he was tested at that weight and leading up to the first fight there were some Leonard was the favorite even though Duran had some quality wins at welter. The first fight was one for the ages and both men should be extremely proud of there efforts.

[BennyST]

When will this myth that Duran was "moving up in weight" to fight Leonard die? He'd been fighting as a welterweight for over a two year period by that point and even before that had over a dozen or so fights as a junior welterweight in the years leading up to his official move up.

Myth? He moved up to 147, initially from super bantam. No ones saying he just jumped up for that one fight. He moved up over time, but he still moved up from lower divisions to fight the much bigger guy.

[BennyST]

Let's take out the Camacho loss, that's like talking about Ali/Holmes. No point.

I'm not saying Duran didn't have a great chin, Leonard's was just better. I think it's fact.

And how can you say Leonard didn't fight bigger men, heck at welterweight Hearns was bigger than him, he fought Hagler and won, Lolande, though drained, was a big guy, are we forgetting Leonard's move up to 154?? Yes, because Duran was so small, only 5'6'' he almost always, outside of the LW division, had to fight bigger guys but the vast majority of people are going to be taller than 5'6'' and heavier than 135.

Duran failed for a long time at the higher weights and only legitimate championship post Leonard II was against Barkley, maybe we can add the Moore win to that too. The reason he failed was because he just didn't have enough of that skill edge to win consistently against the best at the higher weights...Leonard did, going back to my original point, Leonard was better.

Fact? Ok then. Fact. Anyway....this is a weird post. I don't know if you're trolling or not.

That makes no sense to me. Duran didn't fail at the higher weights, unlike Leonard because they didn't start at the same weight. He moved up from 119 pounds. Duran didn't start at 147 with Leonard, therefore failed where Leonard succeeded.

By the time he'd gotten to 154, he'd fought in about 6 different divisions, for 15 or more years, reigned as champion for a decade, and beaten Leonard at 147, already through more divisions than Leonard ever fought at. Leonard was naturally much bigger, and much younger so it goes without saying that he'd have success at weights higher than Duran because it was in only his 2nd and 3rd move up at 154 and 160. He was never small at those weights nor was he past his prime.

Leonard's move to 154 is like Durans to 135, and his move to 160 is like Durans to 147 if you want a slightly more reasonable comparison. It happened in the prime of his career. Leonard 'losing' to Hearns at 160 or Norris at 154 is like what Duran was doing at 154/160 etc. He was already done. The Leonard win alone for Duran proves all of that wrong. Duran didn't start at 147. The fact he also ended up beating Barkley at 160 while 37 or 38 years old, while Leonard was getting beat up by Norris and Hearns while much younger and in only his 2nd and 3rd divisions kind of makes many of your points silly.

The way you compare them just doesn't work. They didn't start at the same time, and they certainly didn't start at the same weights. Leonard started at 147, so it would go without saying he'd have more success at 154 and 160 than a much smaller guy that started out nearly at bantamweight a decade earlier. It's sort of like saying Leonard didn't have as much success as Roy jones Jr moving up in weight because Roy moved up to Heavyweight and Leonard didn't. They both fought at jr middle and middleweight after all. Leonard however started earlier at a much lower weight, so it would go without saying that Roy would do better at higher weights. The comparison doesn't work though because Leonard had plenty of success moving up also, just at lower weights.

As for the skill thing....that's what makes me think you're trolling. So Leonard moving up to 154, then 160 and still winning makes him more skillful than Duran who didn't do as well at 154 and 160, despite starting south of featherweight, therefore his skill isn't as good? Maybe we could argue that Duran still winning a title at 37/38 against a three division champion a decade younger and so much bigger, in what we'll just call his 6th weight division (from 130) shows more skill than Leonard who was losing to Norris and Hearns whilst much younger and in only his 2/3division proves that his 'skill' wasn't so good....? Could be...?

Like I said earlier, they didn't start at the same weight, so that point makes no sense. Duran lost two fights, let's just say from 130-147 (Duran beat his first great champion at 130), both of which were against opponents he also beat. That's four divisions. Leonard moved up four divisions across his whole career. The difference is in Durans 4th division, he beat a prime sugar Ray Leonard. Leonard beat Donny Lalonde.

Can you explain the chin fact?

It seems to me like you're comparing Leonard's prime and best years to Durans past prime years and worst weights and saying they're the same thing.

[New England]

Tough one this, Leonard and Duran are my 2 of my all time favs.

Leonard was faster, had a better chin, great footwork, possibly better than Duran, had sharper reflexes and was, in my opinion, a better all round fighter and what I mean by that is, that he could switch from fighting on the backfoot to the front in a heart beat, or vice versa.

Duran was more aggressive, had pretty good defence himself, lacked that SRL chin, lacked immense speed and reflexes but made up for it in ring craft and a real foxiness (Read: rule breaking). I think Duran was a good all rounder fighter but not as gifted as Leonard, so often in his career, he hated fighting on the backfoot or trying to chase a fight not going his way.

So SRL edges it but I've seen the opposite argument from some here, so it just goes to show how close these two were.

If I ever made a list of most skilled fighters ever Id have these names

Ali, Robinson, Duran, Leonard, Chavez Sr, Whitaker, Lopez, Pacquiao, Charles, Moore, Louis

Obviously not in that order but just a taster of who I'd have

duran had an iron chin. leonard did, too.


duran also had great, great defense.


it looks like somebody's got some film to watch!

[Cyberspace]

Both had great skills, that is enough for me.

[New England]

Both had great skills, that is enough for me.

me too.

if you had a ray leonard and a roberto duran in every weight class boxing would be the planet's most popular sport. no sport would come close.

[GOD-FR33]

I totally agree......

Great post. It was hard for me to give my analysis because they were two of my favorite. Both top five all-time greats. They both had iron chins and great defense but Duran's defense was very under-rated. If you've read my post, I said the thing.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Duran and leonard are comparable to toney and roy


Duran much like toney, is more skilled and textbook, great defenders and counters

But leonard like jones, while skilled, arent quite has overall fundamentally sound as duran/toney, but their great natural born talent, plus skills, made them to much too handle for guys with higher skills levels like duran/toney

[GOD-FR33]

More skilled?

How is Duran a more skilled fighter than Leonard when he lost to Hagler and Hearns? I don't agree at all.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

How is Duran a more skilled fighter than Leonard when he lost to Hagler and Hearns? I don't agree at all.

Dude, I dont know what to say to that,,,, Leonard got knocked out by camacho, and duran went the distance with him, so what...

In the 80s leonard was prime and duran was past prime and up in weight,,,

I actually would have loved to seen SRL fight a rematch with hearns at 154 in the early 80s...

Duran was much smaller fighter than prime hearns and hagler,,, Duran wasnt shot but he wasnt prime, and wasnt at his ideal weight,,, Had SRL fought that version of hagler that duran did, its very likely that leonard gets stopped....

SRL got by with great handspeed, Ring smarts, Heart, solid chin, Huge will to win, plus great skills,,