Who thinks the FIRST clay-liston fight was fixed?

[smasher]

You also have to take notice how Marciano won. Most of his opponents including Charles (second time), Walcott, Moore and Joe Louis all got knocked the **** out.

Charles was floored 8 times by Lloyd Marshall before being KO'd and 7 times losing to Jimmy Bivins. That's 15 knockdowns in two fights by two guys alone!! How great was Ezzard Charles chin? Charles went 10-13 after the Marciano losses. How great was he at that point in his career? Louis was 37 years old, had already been floored 8 times in his career and been KO'd by Max Schmeling. Walcott was 38 & 39 years old in his 2 fights with Rocky and had already been KO'd by Abe Simon, Tiger Jack Fox, Joe Louis and Al Etore. Marciano goes life and death with Charles and Walcott before KO'ing them, big deal....

[Brockton Lip]

Charles was floored 8 times by Lloyd Marshall before being KO'd and 7 times losing to Jimmy Bivins. That's 15 knockdowns in two fights by two guys alone!! How great was Ezzard Charles chin? Louis was 37 years old, had already been floored 8 times in his career and been KO'd by Max Schmeling. Walcott was 38 & 39 years old in his 2 fights with Rocky and had already been KO'd by Abe Simon, Tiger Jack Fox, Joe Louis and Al Etore. Marciano goes life and death with Charles and Walcott before KO'ing them, big deal....

Ali was floored by an older and lighter Henry Cooper. And Liston was 10 years older than Ali and Ali was 18 years younger than Archie Moore. And yeah Louis was older but he was on his come back having won 8 consecutive times before fighting Marciano. Louis' record was 68-2 with 54 by KO. He was KO'd by Schmeling but thats because he figured out a pattern in Joe and in their rematch, Louis fixed it and knocked out Max in the first round.

[smasher]

Ali was floored by an older and lighter Henry Cooper. And Liston was 10 years older than Ali and Ali was 18 years younger than Archie Moore. And yeah Louis was older but he was on his come back having won 8 consecutive times before fighting Marciano. Louis' record was 68-2 with 54 by KO. He was KO'd by Schmeling but thats because he figured out a pattern in Joe and in their rematch, Louis fixed it and knocked out Max in the first round.

So what's the ****ing point of that? Did I claim Ali was great because he knocked Cooper 'the **** out' to use your terminology? Did I claim Ali was great because he knocked Moore 'the **** out'. And who had KO'd Liston or floored him prior to Ali beating him...I'll help you NOBODY....Don't give Marciano too much credit for beating Louis. That's like Tyson beating Holmes, Holmes beating Ali, McBride beating Tyson, or Donald beating Holyfield. These guys were shells. You still didn't answer my question. Which one of the previously mentioned champs would have lost to any of Marciano's opponents?

[butterfly1964]

Undefeated against the likes of Charles, Walcott, and Joe Louis, incredible stamina, heart, and power. Hes not overrated.

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Rocky Marciano

he's overrated by racist whites who say he would beat any fighter who ever lived uncluding ali, louis, foreman, and tyson combined!

[butterfly1964]

Well, Liston is overrated too then.

Well, Tyson is overrated too then.

[dansweeney]

Well, Tyson is overrated too then.

you and smasher are the same person, stop backing up your own points with an alt. ali is the most overrated heavy ever, he got more gift decisions than anybody in history, and the Rock would have kayoed his ass. and don't bring race into it, that's so weak pal

[butterfly1964]

you and smasher are the same person, stop backing up your own points with an alt. ali is the most overrated heavy ever, he got more gift decisions than anybody in history, and the Rock would have kayoed his ass. and don't bring race into it, that's so weak pal

well, obviously you are white, so enough said.

[dansweeney]

well, obviously you are white, so enough said.

using your logic, then you are obviously black, enough said

[butterfly1964]

using your logic, then you are obviously black, enough said

well, that has nothing to do with my opinion, that marciano is overrated. that he never fought anybody that good to be as highly regarded as he is. he barely even fought hw's. most of the people he fought were about 180+, and some were even naturally 160. so take all that and you have the greatest heavyweight of all-time rocky marciano! that is the most racist piece of **** i've ever heard of.

marciano-ali: ali doesn't have the stamina to take marciano's relenless attack and would fall in the later rounds, cause marciano would break his ribs!(even though ali's midsection is the strongest in history, and he has a cast-iron chin and extraordinary stamina and speed for a guy his size)

marciano-tyson: tyson would quit cause marciano would never give up.(even though tyson is bigger, faster, stronger, more skilled, and never gave up to a fighter that was 40lbs. smaller than he is)

marciano-foreman: foreman has no stamina and the rock would take advantage and his chin could survive foreman's punches.(even though the style that marciano used is the style that would get you killed against foreman, and foreman punches harder than any fighter ever, and a middleweight dropped marciano with one punch, but foreman couldn't hurt marciano )

that is some of the floatsam that i have been reading here and it's starting to make me sick. i have never thought that whites would be so ****** and bias and ride marciano's **** like no tomorrow as they've been doing. just look at that little boy. there's no way he belongs in the same breath as ali, foreman, or even tyson. marciano would be crushed by foreman and tyson, and embarrased by ali. if you take racial bias out of your decisions then you will understand what i'm talking about. i have no problem with anybody saying he was good, or even great! but to say he was the best, or even a top 5 hw is just plain ******ed. i don't wan't to come across as being harsh, and maybe some of you will think i'm racist. but i'm just speaking the truth. i have nothing against marciano or whites, and i am not at all partial to black fighters, but i see things as they are. no way marciano would do the superhuman things that some of you say he would do. he had a bad style for big sluggers such as foreman, so he would be devastated instantly, that is just a fact of life. the sky is blue. one plus one equals two. marciano would be annihilated by foreman.

[smasher]

you and smasher are the same person, stop backing up your own points with an alt. ali is the most overrated heavy ever, he got more gift decisions than anybody in history, and the Rock would have kayoed his ass. and don't bring race into it, that's so weak pal

At least I back up my points with FACTS. What kind of ****ing useless logic do you use? "the Rock would have kayoed his ass" Based on what? Back it up or shut the **** up. FOR THE LAST ****ING TIME INBREDS, WHO DID MARCIANO DEFEAT THAT WOULD HAVE BEATEN ALI, LOUIS, FOREMAN, FRAZIER, HOLMES, HOLYFIELD, LEWIS OR TYSON???? NO TAKERS???? THEN I REST MY ****ING CASE......