Will we ever see another Mike Tyson?

[New England]

Come on NE, ya gotta try harder than that...

You said the reason for European dominance is because of the lack of American talent, then point to a period 40 years ago. Who says Wilder is better than Thompson anyway?

no, actually. i never say that. my logic implies that, because it is logical, but that's not what i say. my line of reasoning involves the location of talented american big men, and whether or not they are boxing or playing football. if these threads are evidence of anything, it's that brits don't read well.

i don't assert that these men are preordained champions. in fact, i make it a point in each of these threads to explain that simply being talented doesn't make a champion. there's another supremely talented six and a half footer in boxing named wladimir. never do i say that these men are preordained to beat wladimir. i only say that they are talented, and that talented men are morel likely to be great boxers.

i said the lack of talent is in majority product of the exodus of americans, because it's true. you wouldn't even think these guys were real if they boxed. i'm talking about thousands of wilders. you don't even believe me when i say that, but i do not care.



and yes, thompson is uncoordinated and slow. wilder is coordinated and fast. he has one of the hardest right hands you will ever see, which is a product of his leverage and speed. wilder's the only guy in america with long arms and speed? rofl. go watch a f#cking basketball game, dude. actually watch one. will you look at an nba roster if i post it? these guys are all deontay wilder. 6'8", long, fast, and strong. i hate wasting more time here than i need to.

wilder was a star athlete in several sports. if you took 1500 wilders and 1500 thompsons you'd get better fighters from the wilders. to think otherwise is laughable.

[D-MiZe]

Your logic is simple enough for a sentence;

America has no superstar heavyweights because they're in different sports.


That is what you're saying, agree?

...and what I'm saying is that making an assertion like that is ****** and one which can be made by any other nation concerning anything. 1000s of Wilders is such an ignorant notion.

I don't care if they're big and athletic, boxing is comprised of so much more than that. The problem here is I'm arguing without making assumptions where as you're pushing your assumption as fact. We're getting nowhere, lets just leave it at this...

[Chris_Rock]

It's only the African-American that is athletically superior, athletically talented white Americans is a paradox.


I cannot think of one country where boxing is #1, there are a plethora of other sports that would 'steal' potentially great boxers. The dominance of European boxers isn't because African-Americans are in different sports, it's because they've been allowed to turn professional.

Had we been discussing this about amateur boxing only, there would be no competition.

Your logic applies to every country in this world, the only difference being is none of us feel the need to give a reason. You only cite the heavyweight division too, what will be your excuse when we see a major decline in American champions across all weight classes?

We already see that dawg, look at the Middleweight division, look at any division below 135. Look at smw which has over the years been dominated by non-Americans, mostly Europeans. The heavyweight division won't go back to America for a long time yet. Yes other sports may have a role to play in that but above all else, the main beef be that for a long time, all the big money was in the US, now boxing finances have changed and you can earn enough if not more than US boxers in the UK, Germany and so on.

Times are changin lil *****aaas! listen to yo boy!

EASY MONEY, EASY GAINS, HOLLA!

[SBleeder]

quite a few. most runningbacks are in the 5'9" to 6' range, the exact size of mike tyson.


tyson is not too small to be a runningback. he's actually about 5'11" when he stands up straight. if he lifted [and more importantly ate] like an NFL player he'd probably be 235 lbs by his 22nd birthday. i was talking about college sports anyway, if you were actually reading the posts and looking to make a meaningful contribution.

tyson was not too short to play runningback, especially in division 1. that's absurd. that pic you've posted means nothing. all of those men are markedly smaller than mike tyson. they've lifted and ate heavy since they were teenagers. tyson got up in the morning and ran to keep weight off.


there are dozens of running backs under 6' in the league. they are the norm. if you're fast and relatively robust you can play runningback in college as an absolute shrimp. some of those guys are only 180-190 lbs.

I've stood beside Mike Tyson. If he's 5'11 then I'm 6'5". (I'm only 6'2" without shoes. Mke Tyson is 5'9" at best. There's a huge difference between 5'9" and 5'11". If you're 5'9" you'd better be a phenom.

I brought up the NFL because very few major Div I.players don't have at least some hope of going to the league.

[New England]

Your logic is simple enough for a sentence;

America has no superstar heavyweights because they're in different sports.


That is what you're saying, agree?

...and what I'm saying is that making an assertion like that is ****** and one which can be made by any other nation concerning anything. 1000s of Wilders is such an ignorant notion.

I don't care if they're big and athletic, boxing is comprised of so much more than that. The problem here is I'm arguing without making assumptions where as you're pushing your assumption as fact. We're getting nowhere, lets just leave it at this...

no, that's not correct.


the argument is this:
america dominated HW boxing for almost a century. virtually all of the great HW other than lennox lewis are american. the decline of boxing in america correlates directly with the meteoric rise in popularity of the NBA and NFL at the professional and collegiate level. the talent pool (300+ million diverse, large people, who once dominated HW boxing for an entire f#cking century) moved from boxing to basketball and football.


you can act as though the exodus of the largest talent pool for HW boxing has nothing to do with the current, god awful landscape. i do not care whether or not you recognize the obvious correlation between the rise of the NFL and NBA [and collegiate football and basketball] and the decline of HW boxing in america.



you attribute europe catching up exclusively to europe getting better. europe has gotten better, but to think that's the only reason that they dominate HW today is absurd. it's an awful division, man. it is easy to do well in so poor a division. face it. wladimir and vitali. other than that none of the eastern euro HW have been good.

it's asinine to deny the correlation between the rise of the NFL and NBA, and the death of the american HW. you would not even think these guys were real if they were boxing. it's not that they're preordained greats. it's that there are thousands of them, and you're better off with thousands of those guys than thousands of tony thompsons.


you like anthony joshua? talented kid. i wish him the best because he's a serious talent who works hard and i'm a sucker for that, no matter where you're from. his talent is common in the NFL or NBA. i'm, not saying they're better athletes than he is, only that his level of athleticism is common. i am not boasting, exxagerrating, whatever you attribute it to. i don't lie on the bscene to further my agenda. i use the truth for that. that's the truth. anthony joshuas (240 lb, 6'6" beasts,) are playing basketball and football by the thousands in america.



the only reason i'm disengaging is because you're not listening to my arguments, which are factual, based on the history of the sport, and address adequately the issues. we are making "headway." you're conceding, and i'm piling up the headshots. boom boom.

you're making an absurd argument; that the rise of the NFL and NBA are not the major factor in the lack of american talent [and subsequent success,] in the division, and that the rise of eastern europe is the chief reason for a lack of american success in the division.


if eastern euros didn't get their asses kicked in the olympics you could make a historically factual argument, and then we'd have a real debate.

instead, you're reduced to assuming that your large athletes could be great HW, while i use as evidence a century long tenure of American dominance of the division. 100 years. do you even listen when i talk?

[New England]

I've stood beside Mike Tyson. If he's 5'11 then I'm 6'5". (I'm only 6'2" without shoes. Mke Tyson is 5'9" at best. There's a huge difference between 5'9" and 5'11". If you're 5'9" you'd better be a phenom.

I brought up the NFL because very few major Div I.players don't have at least some hope of going to the league.

there is not a huge difference between 5'11 and 5'9". there are two inches.


is it some conspiracy that every major media outlet that measured him said he was 5'11" when he stood up straight?


stocky dudes do not have terrific posture. larry merchant / jim lampley go over this in a broadcast, citing tyson as being 5'11" when he stands up straight, but when walking around being much shorter. he slouches.


and no, there are boatloads of college running backs in division 1 who are 5'9" or less. and guess what, they've probably got bad posture given their builds. that doesn't matter anyway, as mike tyson was measured in his prime at 5'11"


and most of the major division one players have no shot at going pro. there are more than 50 players on a football roster. you think all of those guys have a shot at going pro? that's ridiculous. there are hundreds of division one programs, and 32 NFL teams.

[violaandme]

Brandon Jacobs ex running back for the NY Giants was an outstanding Amateur Boxer and chose Football because he could get a degree and college scholarship playing football a talented 6'4" 265lbs very low body fat who could run a 10.5 100 meters and a 4.56 40 yard he chose football for an education even though he loved boxing and football was just to keep in shape he would have been an absolute killer in the ring the major problem is the amount of time put in the gym at young ages Jacobs started boxing at 8 years old and was 35-2 and twice the Louisiana state AAU champ

[NVSemin]

the right question to ask will there ever be another Cus?

As for Tyson, would you need another Patterson after Tyson? We need a guy, who would take the best from Mike and build upon it and be better than him.

[violaandme]

there are many Div 1 programs with many players under 5'10" and many positions that there are an abundance of shorter players including Runningback Defensive backs linebackers and even Receivers are just recently becoming a tall position and many are still small

[joeandthebums]

the right question to ask will there ever be another Cus?

Do you mean another Dan Florio?

Cus D'Amato was a boxing manager.