Will we ever see another Mike Tyson?

[bklynboy]

collegiate and NFL football were not nearly as popular in the 80's, when tyson was learning to box. not even close.


he might not have been a pro football player, but a talent like tyson would 100% be in division one. he was 220 lbs naturally (would probably be 230 or so if he lifted like a runningback,) and he had terrific footwork. he would be recruited to division 1 at the very least.

There isn't much high school football in Brooklyn. If Tyson was born and raised in Texas I could see your point but Brownsville, Red Hook, Bensonhurst? Don't think there's much football there. I could be wrong - its been a while since I've been in high school. : - )

But you're right - even if he never became a professional I could see him having the talent to be recruited by a division 1 team.

[D-MiZe]

It's only the African-American that is athletically superior, athletically talented white Americans is a paradox.


I cannot think of one country where boxing is #1, there are a plethora of other sports that would 'steal' potentially great boxers. The dominance of European boxers isn't because African-Americans are in different sports, it's because they've been allowed to turn professional.

Had we been discussing this about amateur boxing only, there would be no competition.

Your logic applies to every country in this world, the only difference being is none of us feel the need to give a reason. You only cite the heavyweight division too, what will be your excuse when we see a major decline in American champions across all weight classes?

[bklynboy]

Prime Iron Mike, that is. The combination of raw God given talent, power, speed, quickness, punching combos and aggression, especially in the HW division. Personally I think the NFL is making sure that we wont see another one for a while.

I could watch this all day long

http://youtu.be/g-478QGV9pc

Great video. He had amazing D when he came up. It's too bad Cus d'Amato died when he did. A few more years of active mentorship and who knows what would have happened.

[New England]

There isn't much high school football in Brooklyn. If Tyson was born and raised in Texas I could see your point but Brownsville, Red Hook, Bensonhurst? Don't think there's much football there. I could be wrong - its been a while since I've been in high school. : - )

But you're right - even if he never became a professional I could see him having the talent to be recruited by a division 1 team.

i went to school in upstate new york (cornell,) and high school football was huge in ithaca. admittedly, ithaca is in the middle of nowhere, and fields are easy to come by.

at the very least it's more likely that he'd head to football than him getting into boxing, even if he were a brooklynite.

BK kids are obviously more likely to play basketball, given that they are urban and there's not much grass around, and that will rob the HW talent pool of the guys with the prototypical HW body. the typical HW body is long, and fills out as it matures. perfect build for small and power forwards in basketball.


if tyson were a texan he wouldn't have an iceberg's chance in hell of boxing. a 5'11", 220 lb 18 year old? dude is going to play division 1 football and that's the end of it .

[New England]

It's only the African-American that is athletically superior, athletically talented white Americans is a paradox.


I cannot think of one country where boxing is #1, there are a plethora of other sports that would 'steal' potentially great boxers. The dominance of European boxers isn't because African-Americans are in different sports, it's because they've been allowed to turn professional.

Had we been discussing this about amateur boxing only, there would be no competition.

Your logic applies to every country in this world, the only difference being is none of us feel the need to give a reason. You only cite the heavyweight division too, what will be your excuse when we see a major decline in American champions across all weight classes?

this argument has nothing to do with race, even if you find many of the talented americans of that size to be black.
african american isn't an appropriate term, as most blacks i know have never been to africa. just call them black. it's not offensive.

the proliferation of blacks in sports has a lot to do with the economy. athletic talent can be a way out of poverty. many of the great athletes grew up without much to spare, and cite that as a motivation.


eastern euros used to get their butts kicked in the amateurs by the great american HW.



you can't expect anybody who refutes the idea that these leagues rob the division of talent to know what he's talking about. it's absurd to think taht these guys would not make for talented HW, or to account for their participation in boxing in generations past.


here's a list of the HW champions of all time.
i don't even expect you to click this link, but here it is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...xing_champions
notice the american flags. no other country has that kind of history with any division.

keep talking, though. i enjoy the british struggle.

[D-MiZe]

I don't think Eastern Europeans even had electricity when Frazier fought that guy.


'this argument has nothing to do with race, even if you find many of the talented americans of that size to be black.'

Many? Can't think of a single, decent white American heavyweight (apart from when blacks were not allowed to compete, thus allowing easier victories for the white man).

I'd definitely agree that America had a headstart in the heavyweight division but everyone is just catching up with you now.

[New England]

I don't think Eastern Europeans even had electricity when Frazier fought that guy.


'this argument has nothing to do with race, even if you find many of the talented americans of that size to be black.'

Many? Can't think of a single, decent white American heavyweight (apart from when blacks were not allowed to compete, thus allowing easier victories for the white man).

I'd definitely agree that America had a headstart in the heavyweight division but everyone is just catching up with you now.

max baer, jerry quarry, jerry cooney, there have been plenty of top white contenders. these guys would be in the top 10 today without a doubt.

rocky marciano is a top 10 HW all time on any reputable list. he wasn't very good. he was great with a bullet.

on the bold:
yes, and only after talented american big men stopped boxing. that's the argument. it's not even an argument, really, as that applies subjectivity. it's an objective evaluation of the history. the division was permeated by talented americans. it was strong. the HW championship was the most coveted title in sport. all facts. the NFL and NBA are now permeated with that same talent. the didn't didn't cease existing. it moved to other sports. now the rest of the world is catching up. facts. objective.


am i saying that lebron james would kill the klitschkos? no. i am saying that if you took the talented, 6'8" guys in the NBA and had them box you wouldn't even think they were real.

how does deontay wilder look? not a great boxer, but the kid has talent. ther are THOUSANDS of deontay wilders. thousands. they don't even make it to the NBA a lot of the time. they play basketball in college on a scholarship. degrees in america can cost 150-200 grand. scholarship means you get that paid for. boxing doesn't do that for you.

[New England]

you cannot expect a foreigner to understand an explicitly american phenomenon. i'm starting to slowly come around to that notion.

[res]

i went to school in upstate new york (cornell,) and high school football was huge in ithaca. admittedly, ithaca is in the middle of nowhere, and fields are easy to come by.






: .

Comparing upstate New York to Brooklyn N.Y. is functionally the same as comparing Brooklyn to a different state. They're two entirely different worlds. In the 80's in places like Brooklyn, Basketball and Boxing completely overshadowed every other sport for young Black athletes, even Baseball.

[D-MiZe]

max baer, jerry quarry, jerry cooney, there have been plenty of top white contenders. these guys would be in the top 10 today without a doubt.

Baer, Quarry & Cooney - memorable European talents.

how does deontay wilder look?

African-American.




Your argument is one that every country can use but does not. That is the gripe with Americans and their 'all the other sports are stealing our boxing starts' tripe, no one cares about ifs and buts. Plus, we've seen nearly a century of American heavyweight boxers and only a decade of European.