Cus D Amato the greatest and smartest boxing trainer in history?

[Sugarj]

The peek a boo style taught to Tyson by DaMato certainly worked for him. However it did leave one open to the sides and required exceptional movement, speed and conditioning to be successful. It is regarded today by some as being an outdated style and not taught anymore but I am not so sure. It definitely worked for Tyson. I think it would work beautifully for short stocky fighters like Samuel Peter, Dereck Chisora, David Tua etc.

For a taller fighter it is definitely not as effective, it removes the range advantage. If you are big you should fight big!

Floyd Patterson is absolute proof that the style is dependant on the body type. Floyd was only a HW champion because the era he was in was so incredibly weak it allowed him to be!

I don't think that it was a style issue. Just imagine the best Patterson at cruiserweight or light heavyweight rather than mixing it with heavyweights. I don't doubt he could have been an ATG light heavyweight......and other than possibly Evander Holyfield he'd have a good argument for being better than every cruiserweight in the history of the division.

[Tommo1]

Are you serious? Better than any CW in the division?

Modern CW's are fitter, faster and stronger than ANY of the comparable level sub200 opponents back in Floyd's day.

Even just the fact they have to make weight unlike their predecessors which indirectly limits their heights to the most effective for their weight and forces them be in top shape and stripped of any fat without even mentioning modern training.

Imagine what would happen if the illustrious Floyd Patterson met Roy Jones Junior??? He would get absolutely obliterated!

[res]

Are you serious? Better than any CW in the division?

Modern CW's are fitter, faster and stronger than ANY of the comparable level sub200 opponents back in Floyd's day.

Even just the fact they have to make weight unlike their predecessors which indirectly limits their heights to the most effective for their weight and forces them be in top shape and stripped of any fat without even mentioning modern training.

Imagine what would happen if the illustrious Floyd Patterson met Roy Jones Junior??? He would get absolutely obliterated!

If you have so many Cruisers to choose from to beat Patterson why would you choose a guy who never even fought at Cruiser until he was well past his prime (at which point a prime Patterson would have murdered Jones).

Even in Jones' prime, if he slipped up once, a single left hook from Patterson could end the night for him.

[Tommo1]

Well I think it's absolutely ridiculous to assume Floyd would beat the CW version.

Why don't we consider Michael Spinks?

Or the CW version of David Haye?

A better question to ask which would save me from shortlisting heaps of fighters is to ask instead...

"Which decent CW's since the divisions inception would piss weak Patterson be able to defeat?"

Patterson is right up there with Frazier as one of the worst champs of all time. There are probably weaker ones but they have an excuse living in post war times or being too far in the past for real comparisons (maybe Dempsey).

[ironalex]

Well I think it's absolutely ridiculous to assume Floyd would beat the CW version.

Why don't we consider Michael Spinks?

Or the CW version of David Haye?

A better question to ask which would save me from shortlisting heaps of fighters is to ask instead...

"Which decent CW's since the divisions inception would piss weak Patterson be able to defeat?"

Patterson is right up there with Frazier as one of the worst champs of all time. There are probably weaker ones but they have an excuse living in post war times or being too far in the past for real comparisons (maybe Dempsey).

Many of the small heavyweights back in the day would have obliterated the modern day CW. Why? because they were simply too tough. You mention David haye - not only did he gas after 4 rounds at CW (he hasn't a particuarly great workrate at heavy) but he was extremely chinny!

Floyd Patterson, Marciano, Dempsey, all small heavys - would have been way too tough for recent cruiserweights. Frazier worst champ of all time? honestly i think this guy must be a spammer.

[Tommo1]

Yeah well getting back on topic, style aside there is no doubt Damato was one of the best trainers. Steward and Futch are probably better though.

[SBleeder]

He only trained one real ATG fighter, and he died before that fighter had achieved anything of note.

Arcel, Steward, Beristain, Dundee, and Blackburn were all superior in my opinion.

[TBear]

There are many great trainers and have been many intelligent ones so I restraint from labeling anyone the greatest but that being said, Cus D'Amato was a great trainer and I really appreciate his accomplishments.

[Sugarj]

Are you serious? Better than any CW in the division?

Modern CW's are fitter, faster and stronger than ANY of the comparable level sub200 opponents back in Floyd's day.

Even just the fact they have to make weight unlike their predecessors which indirectly limits their heights to the most effective for their weight and forces them be in top shape and stripped of any fat without even mentioning modern training.

Imagine what would happen if the illustrious Floyd Patterson met Roy Jones Junior??? He would get absolutely obliterated!

Lord! Your quote in bold made me wince. Floyd has the fastest left in heavyweight history and some of the quickest hands to ever grace the sport. His one punch hitting power particularly with the left hook was exceptional......not to mention his proven distance stamina!!

You can't make statements like that without evidence. There is no evidence that the modern day welterweight/middleweight/light heavyweight or whatever is 'fitter/faster/stronger' than their 1950s counterparts.

In fact I'd go so far as to say that the world class fighters of the 50s were probably better conditioned than many if not most of the contenders/champions of today.

Prime Roy Jones never fought at cruiserweight. But assuming the guy who met Ruiz stepped in with the Patterson who destroyed Archie Moore......believe me, Floyd would give him a fight many times harder. His handspeed advantage over Ruiz alone would cause problems for Roy. People forget that Ruiz did shade a couple of rounds and at the very least made Roy uncomfortable at times. Patterson was so much more than Ruiz.

[greeh]

He only trained one real ATG fighter, and he died before that fighter had achieved anything of note.

Arcel, Steward, Beristain, Dundee, and Blackburn were all superior in my opinion.

Good shout. Nacho Beristains style of boxing is just beautiful to watch.

/greeh