Which ATG fell from the top the quickest

[K-DOGG]

Jones's fall from grace was rather abrupt I'll admit. Completely changed my tune and woke me out of the trance his speed had put me in for the past few years.

But, realistically, he was old....(34) and his reflexes, which he had relied on his whole career, instead of technique, betrayed him in the end.

Tito's fall after Hopkins, I thought, was more significant, though. He was still in his prime when he said Adios.

[GRboxing]

Is Trinidad really an ATG though?

[K-DOGG]

Is Trinidad really an ATG though?

Well, he deserves consideration. He dominated the welterweight division for years before the De La Hoya fight.....which we know he really should have lost, or, at least I do; but I'm not complaining. Oscar deserved the loss more than him for the last 4 rounds. And those fights were no slouches. Oba Carr, Hector Camacho, Campas, and others. Not to mention the underated Maurice Blocker who had warred with Simon Brown; Trinidad made him look like a pushover....and Blocker had a chin.

Then, he cleaned up at Jr. Middle by embarrassing a pretty tough, albeit young Fernando Vargas. He got rid of Joppy at middle, as he should have; but that was two divisions above where he started.

I think he had potential to do more; but his dad pulled the plug and wouldn't give up control of his career to a better trainer....or Tito wouldn't leave. Either way, he got as far as he did mostly on talent.

I'm not saying he's Top 10; but he would have faired well in any era IMO.

[GRboxing]

Well, he deserves consideration. He dominated the welterweight division for years before the De La Hoya fight.....which we know he really should have lost, or, at least I do; but I'm not complaining. Oscar deserved the loss more than him for the last 4 rounds. And those fights were no slouches. Oba Carr, Hector Camacho, Campas, and others. Not to mention the underated Maurice Blocker who had warred with Simon Brown; Trinidad made him look like a pushover....and Blocker had a chin.

Then, he cleaned up at Jr. Middle by embarrassing a pretty tough, albeit young Fernando Vargas. He got rid of Joppy at middle, as he should have; but that was two divisions above where he started.

I think he had potential to do more; but his dad pulled the plug and wouldn't give up control of his career to a better trainer....or Tito wouldn't leave. Either way, he got as far as he did mostly on talent.

I'm not saying he's Top 10; but he would have faired well in any era IMO.

Fair assessment but he didn't dominate welterweight at all. There was James Page, Jose Lopez, Rivera, closer to prime Whitaker, Ike Quartey, etc. and Trinidad fought none of these guys. He fought too many tune ups to really dominate welter.

[K-DOGG]

Fair assessment but he didn't dominate welterweight at all. There was James Page, Jose Lopez, Rivera, closer to prime Whitaker, Ike Quartey, etc. and Trinidad fought none of these guys. He fought too many tune ups to really dominate welter.

Quartey, yeah. I'll give you that one. That fight should have happened. The Whittaker fight should have; but with the Duvas on one side and King on the other, that was never meant to be.

Rivera, Page, and Lopez I think he could have taken; but your point is conceded. Although, I wouldn't say they were all set-ups. I get cha either way. Cheers.

[violaandme]

I am a Tito Hater unjust but I am I am awhitaker fan and he had been calling Tito out fight after fight and Trinidad waited for him to get old the first time I heard Whitaker call him out was in 95 shortly after Tito won his WW IBF belt Whitaker wanted to unify

Never the less he was a great and talented fighter who may not be deserving of all time great status but he was darn close his not fighting rivera I can understand they were indeed friends but a Quartey fight or a prime Whitaker fight would have done much to put him there if he had done both I would be willing to put him there especially if he had beat them both

[K-DOGG]

I am a Tito Hater unjust but I am I am awhitaker fan and he had been calling Tito out fight after fight and Trinidad waited for him to get old the first time I heard Whitaker call him out was in 95 shortly after Tito won his WW IBF belt Whitaker wanted to unify

Never the less he was a great and talented fighter who may not be deserving of all time great status but he was darn close his not fighting rivera I can understand they were indeed friends but a Quartey fight or a prime Whitaker fight would have done much to put him there if he had done both I would be willing to put him there especially if he had beat them both

Queartey and he would have been a helluva fight. Damn shame that one didn't happen. Ike's boom stick jab could have wreaked havoc all over Tito.

I am and have always been a huge Whitaker fan (ever since the Olympics) and I don't see any way in heaven or hell he could have beaten Whitaker before he did....well, maybe a year or two before; but no sooner

[violaandme]

Yeah Whitaker was special to land a solid shot on him was hard enough but to land enough to make a difference on the scorecards or to stop him in a fight was never done in his prime

[GRboxing]

Quartey, yeah. I'll give you that one. That fight should have happened. The Whittaker fight should have; but with the Duvas on one side and King on the other, that was never meant to be.

Rivera, Page, and Lopez I think he could have taken; but your point is conceded. Although, I wouldn't say they were all set-ups. I get cha either way. Cheers.

Had Trinidad taken on and beaten these guys he'd be a top 5 Welterweight.

[K-DOGG]

Had Trinidad taken on and beaten these guys he'd be a top 5 Welterweight.

If he'd beaten a close to his prime Whitaker and a prime Quartey you'd have an argument for sure. However, the hang up point to argue would be the decision over De La Hoya. It's in the record books, and De La Hoya's last round performance warranted a loss to me; but the reality is.......Oscar boxed his ears off. And that would open up criticism for ranking Trinidad too highly.

However, there have been sooo many great welterweights over the years, not making the top 5, or even the toop 10 doesn't mean you're not an ATG.....just not "immortal", so to speak.