Was RJJ too fast at MW to be beaten by anyone?

[Ray Corso]

I'm sure all these men wouldn't even bother showing up because of his "speed"!

Robinson
Ketchel
Greb
Flowers
Walker
Steele
Cerdan
LaMotta
Burley
Benvenute'
Monzon
Hagler............................................ ....I heard that Roy was so fast he could steal a stereo while people listened to it??? Is that true??
Roy was a very talented, speedy guy at 160lbs but he was NOT unbeatable and heres a few men that would have something to say about that!! Ray

[THE REED]

Obviously.

He was undefeated there.

[BennyST]

agree 100% with the exception that Toney had the ability to make close some fights which should not have been clothes. So I would not be surprised if he lost some rounds on activity against say Froch.

That being said, with the generally poor defense of the guys you mentioned, I see some of them hurt like no one ever hurt them.

Yeah, I was exaggerating. Goes without saying that he'd lose rounds and maybe have a reasonably close fight or two, if from nothing more than his laziness in some fights/rounds.

If we're talking at his best though, I don't see anyone apart from Ward getting very close at all to beating him.

The thing I think people aren't understanding is that RJJ never fought the big punchers, Froch has the power to test what RJJ dodged. But hey, I guess I must not know anything about boxing because I analyze a career and notice a consistency he had when it came to opponents who weren't enormous KO guys or guys who have a lot of power.

It has nothing to do with the style of Froch. He's just not good enough to beat Jones. As for the power of Froch, he absolutely does not have more power than everyone that Jones fought and beat. He's not that big of a puncher. He's a good, solid puncher but certainly no monster power puncher that some make him out to be. He wears people down much more than blasts them out with one shot.

Everything favours Jones. Speed, defense, combinations, power, everything.

From memory, up until his first 'loss' Jones KTFO out of everyone apart from 4 unknockoutable guys. McCallum, Toney, Hopkins and Castro. All unknockoutable guys. He basically had a 90% KO ratio from 160 to 175.

He did fight guys with great power too. As much, or more, as Froch. Froch's power really is not nearly as good as you're making it out to be I think. Since stepping up to proper, world level competition, he's only had a few KO's. Let's say he stepped up with Pascal yeah? I'm not going to count a shot to **** Reid stepping up at that point. Before that he stopped most guys, about 16 out of 20 or whatever. He's only knocked out guys, apart from Bute (who you could nearly argue has basically been KO'd), who have shown to be very susceptible to KOs though.

I'd say it is much, much more likely that Jones knocks Froch out. Much more likely. Even guys that were, at the time, thought to be nearly impossible to KO were knocked out like Thornton and Tate.

Dawson could give Toney problems outside. Froch and Kessler could cause problems by virtue of superior conditioning. I'd favor Toney against all, but it's unrealistic to think that he'd easily beat them.

Yeah, it's certainly possible that tall, fast guys at 175 could give him problems. I was talking about 160/168, as I think 175 is where the best start to give Toney some issues. He was pretty lazy at 175.

I don't know why exactly, but I don't see Dawson beating Toney at all. I think Dawson has always been a little overrated. Nunn, in my opinion, was quite a bit better than Dawson. Very tall, very fast, much slicker defensively, and used all those attributes a lot better than Dawson has.

I don't think Dawson would be able to stop Toney from getting close and winning exchanges.

[Nahshon Israel]

LOL so Hopkins and Toney were not best? Castro and Malinga weren't proven B+ competition?

Its usually the same 5 guys who people claim that Roy "ducked" or "avoided"
Eubank(squeaked by Malinga)
Benn(beaten by Malinga)
Collins(beaten by Reggie Johnson)
Dariusz(beaten by Julio Gonzalez)
and the funniest one is Frankie Liles who is the least dangerous of the 5, and probable gets KO'd by just about every other boxer I named in this post

I'm glad you brought this up, and your totally right. and the funny thing is that RJJ beat Sugar Boy Mlinga right after Malinga beat Benn. Than he KO'd Reggie Johnson in spectacular fashion right after Johnson beat Collins, Than he humiliated Julio Gonzalez with 3 knockdowns right after Gonzalez beat Dariusz. And in sports you don't go back in challenge the loser in any sport. That's like the Seahawks beating the Redskins and their opponent in the next round challenges the Redskins.. Go Figure! Also I point out that RJJ was set to challenge Tarver, but Tarver had lost a decision in a title eliminator to Eric Harding on ESPN. That's why RJJ fought Harding and TKO'd him. Tarver had to work his way to another title shot. That's when RJJ moved up to heavy, tarver had to go through Harding again and beat the #2 guy in Montell Griffin

[Nahshon Israel]

I think of all the weight devisions a prime RJJ is the most dominant in his catergory! I think he was naturally bigger and faster than robinson. He always had a bad chin though and i would be interested too see how he deals with tommy hearns, tall, big reach, fast and a good jab, i think that would be a wierd opponent for roy but then again he was faster and hearns is probably getting knocked out

RJJ did not have a bad chin, his chin didn't become a problem until the 2nd Tarver fight when his muscle memory and reflexes where shot. RJJ took big shots from Toney, Bhop, the 1st Tarver fight, the Body snatcher McCallum, RJJ also showed his heart and chin when he was down against Lou Del Valle in a light heavy weight title fight. Del Valle hit Roy with the same shot Tarver landed, but Roy was able to recover due to his you and prime. In case you don't know Lou Del Valle was a hard punching southpaw with 1 decision lose when he challenged Roy!

[Nahshon Israel]

I'm sure all these men wouldn't even bother showing up because of his "speed"!

Robinson
Ketchel
Greb
Flowers
Walker
Steele
Cerdan
LaMotta
Burley
Benvenute'
Monzon
Hagler............................................ ....I heard that Roy was so fast he could steal a stereo while people listened to it??? Is that true??
Roy was a very talented, speedy guy at 160lbs but he was NOT unbeatable and heres a few men that would have something to say about that!! Ray

Hagler sure did lose to 2 guys smaller than him in Duran & Ray Lenoard. Although Ray was fast and slick, but he was not near as fast and slick as RJJ prime for prime, and let's not talk about Duran speed and reflexes compare to RJJ. Heck Ray wasn't even in his prime when he stole a decision from Hagler, and Hagler had so much trouble trying to get to Ray and handling his little flurries. Duran although a ATG, was a freaking lightweigh

[Nahshon Israel]

Limited Club fighter who holds titles titles in the most stacked weight division in boxing.

His biggest flaw is Andre Ward.

Fall back, super middle is not the most stack!! Heck heavy weight looks more stacked with Wilder, Fury, Price, Pulev.. and so on. Outside Ward who is @ super middle, inactive Andre Dirrell, Anthony Dirrell shelved from motorcycle accident, Kessler is not in his prime, and Froch is a B level fighter. Super middle is not as stack as Light Welter, Jr Middle, Middle weight might be more stacked with it's up and coming fighters in Triple GGG, Quillin, Pirog, Jacbos, Hussein

[Ray Corso]

First off Roy had about 20 bouts as a middleweight!
Hagler was far past his best with Leonard why do you think Leonard waited so long to answer the challenge!
Hagler had tuffer sparring partners in Philly than Roy. Roy was a very good fighter but he's not the best middleweight especially after a handfull of bouts!

Lets talk Robinson, same size, abit more experience? By about 150 bouts!! Compare records?? How about Burley??

Whats the use you don't even know who these men were, if you did you wouldn't think Jones was "sliced bread", actually I'm getting to bored with all the huggers here! I like Roy and I did like him best at 160 but he wasn't the best he was a top twenty with a terrific class of very good fighters to compare too! But a handfull of fights doesn't give you the crown even if you won them all, I'll bet 50% of the opponents no one has ever heard of then and now! Ray.

[StarshipTrooper]

Limited Club fighter who holds titles titles in the most stacked weight division in boxing.

Too bad Croch never beat anyone with a pulse there (and NO, washed-up 1 3/4 feet in the grave Glenn Johnson doesn't count as someone with a pulse). What's his best win there? The hometown robbery over Dirrell?

Poet

[NChristo]

Hagler sure did lose to 2 guys smaller than him in Duran & Ray Lenoard. Although Ray was fast and slick, but he was not near as fast and slick as RJJ prime for prime, and let's not talk about Duran speed and reflexes compare to RJJ. Heck Ray wasn't even in his prime when he stole a decision from Hagler, and Hagler had so much trouble trying to get to Ray and handling his little flurries. Duran although a ATG, was a freaking lightweigh

Hagler lost too Duran ?.