Nobody beats the best version of Lennox Lewis. Nobody.

[Simurgh]

I like Lennox - but prime Ali destroys him and a couple of others give him a very competitive (could go both ways) fights.

Lennox's best win (both proximity to prime and quality) is Vitali and we all now how convincing that one was. Well past prime Holyfiled gave too many problems to prime Lennox - much more than he gave to Bowe.

I do rank prime Lennox in top3-5 P2P, but really there is no argument for him to be considered as "The Greatest P2P" ever.

[Sugarj]

Thank you very much for at least attempting to answer in a way answers in the history sections should be.


Now I disagree with your Holyfield,Ali logic. They fight totally different styles and Ali's style which I broke down would have been better suited for Lennox.

As for the 'fight 2'... Lewis still won that fight 7-5 according to most boxing experts. So you combine the two fights Lewis and Holyfield fought. That's at least a 17-7 edge to Lewis. 16-8 if we are generous.

Holyfield II was not the best version of Lewis. Holyfield I,Golota,Tua =the best versions of Lewis. You combine those fights and those versions of Lewis and what you have is a unbeatable 6'5 245 pound machine who can brawl and box.

As for your 'prime Holyfield' theory. That's at least 40 pages worthy of debate. The Holyfield of mid 90's was actually in many ways more deadly and effective than the Holyfield who was getting brutalized by Rid**** Bowe.

In fact.. I would have picked the Holyfield who fought Tyson over the Holyfield who fought Bowe.. Quite easily too. The Tyson version of Holyfield was bigger,stronger,more power, threw from various angles, and had amazing inside fighting abilities which broke Tyson's will. So that whole debate in regards to Holyfield's 'prime' is hard to figure out.

On the Ali vs Lewis front, I think one thing gets overlooked.....workrate. I can't think of a Lewis fight in the late 90s or early 2000s where Lewis showed excellent workrate over the 12 round distance, let alone the 15 rounds Ali was used to. Lewis was clearly blowing very hard against Mavrovich and against Tua he hardly showed 'Thrilla in Manilla' levels of activity.

Its no surprise really, Lewis is much heavier than prime Ali.......basic physics usually dictates that lower weight athletes have a higher endurance base. I don't see lewis stopping Ali, Ali's chin was at least as good as 1999/2000Holyfield.....and he'd take less punches from Lewis. Lets face it, Ali was very hard to catch clean in his prime.....and Ali certainly had a higher workrate than the late 90s version of Holyfield. I can only see one winner here!

But coming back to Holyfield, I've never thought that the 1996 version of Holyfield who met Tyson was anything like as good as the early 90s version. Against Tyson, Holyfield's tactics were excellent......he relied on lots of clinching, holding, leaning early on, a fair smattering of headbutts.....and when the first five rounds (and Tyson's fire) were over he simply outpunched Tyson. But Holyfield's accuracy, speed, mobility and workrate were not as impressive as they were in say the Douglas fight, Foreman, Holmes or Bowe 1 & 2.

I actually rate Bowe 1 as one of Holyfield's finest performances. For speed, combinations, heart and stamina it was exceptional...........its just that Bowe was remarkable that night. I'd favour 'that' Bowe over any version of Lewis. But when you compare the Holyfield (with the Emmanuel Steward tactics of Bowe 2) with the Holyfield of the second Lewis match, you have to realise how much superior the earlier version of Holyfield was. If that version of Holyfield meets Lewis, I'm sure he'd get the decision.

To be fair, I do rate Lennox Lewis very highly. He is a top ten heavyweight of all time. At his best there isn't a heavyweight in history who has an easy night. But I do think that the finest boxers probably win decisions, and the best punchers have more than a good chance of getting KOs. Sadly both Lewis's losses came from one punch KOs in fights he was winning. No accumulated punishment......one punch each time. I just find it hard to rationalise that the likes of prime Foreman, Tyson, Liston & Louis wouldn't have found equally decent punches to Rahman and McCall. Lennox wasn't a defensive genuis and I don't think he manages to Golota or Ruddock these guys before they find the knockout blows.

[Simurgh]

On the Ali vs Lewis front, I think one thing gets overlooked.....workrate. I can't think of a Lewis fight in the late 90s or early 2000s where Lewis showed excellent workrate over the 12 round distance, let alone the 15 rounds Ali was used to. Lewis was clearly blowing very hard against Mavrovich and against Tua he hardly showed 'Thrilla in Manilla' levels of activity.

Its no surprise really, Lewis is much heavier than prime Ali.......basic physics usually dictates that lower weight athletes have a higher endurance base. I don't see lewis stopping Ali, Ali's chin was at least as good as 1999/2000Holyfield.....and he'd take less punches from Lewis. Lets face it, Ali was very hard to catch clean in his prime.....and Ali certainly had a higher workrate than the late 90s version of Holyfield. I can only see one winner here!

But coming back to Holyfield, I've never thought that the 1996 version of Holyfield who met Tyson was anything like as good as the early 90s version. Against Tyson, Holyfield's tactics were excellent......he relied on lots of clinching, holding, leaning early on, a fair smattering of headbutts.....and when the first five rounds (and Tyson's fire) were over he simply outpunched Tyson. But Holyfield's accuracy, speed, mobility and workrate were not as impressive as they were in say the Douglas fight, Foreman, Holmes or Bowe 1 & 2.

I actually rate Bowe 1 as one of Holyfield's finest performances. For speed, combinations, heart and stamina it was exceptional...........its just that Bowe was remarkable that night. I'd favour 'that' Bowe over any version of Lewis. But when you compare the Holyfield (with the Emmanuel Steward tactics of Bowe 2) with the Holyfield of the second Lewis match, you have to realise how much superior the earlier version of Holyfield was. If that version of Holyfield meets Lewis, I'm sure he'd get the decision.

To be fair, I do rate Lennox Lewis very highly. He is a top ten heavyweight of all time. At his best there isn't a heavyweight in history who has an easy night. But I do think that the finest boxers probably win decisions, and the best punchers have more than a good chance of getting KOs. Sadly both Lewis's losses came from one punch KOs in fights he was winning. No accumulated punishment......one punch each time. I just find it hard to rationalise that the likes of prime Foreman, Tyson, Liston & Louis wouldn't have found equally decent punches to Rahman and McCall. Lennox wasn't a defensive genuis and I don't think he manages to Golota or Ruddock these guys before they find the knockout blows.

Great post, mate! Green.

People should re-watch certain fights and rethink realistically about different match ups.

[Sugarj]

Great post, mate! Green.

People should re-watch certain fights and rethink realistically about different match ups.

What a gent! Christmas came early.......cheers bud.