Marvin Hagler vs. Ray Leonard

[Southpaw16BF]

No its 100% correct but silly fans who like to feed myths keep it going, Hagler never made out it was close he made out he won clearly, which he did not.

Hagler did not win 7 rounds and i deffy anyone to find 7 rounds where they did not give all the close rounds to Hagler. If you give 7 to Hagler it means you gave no close rounds to Leonard, fact!!!

So Boxing experts who think Hagler won, are silly fans who are feeding a myth? No one claimed Hagler won easily, but you said the reason the fight was close is because of Hagler's frustration, they were your words. Now your trying to change what you said.

You made a ****** comment and am not the only you has quoted you on it. There is only one silly person around here saying silly things......

[Dynamite Kid]

It seems the basis of the argument has gone from can i argue Hagler won the fight to can i argue that it was not myth that he won the fight and it was at least close enough to argue he won.

Bottom line is...........do you think he won 7 rounds? because that is what he needed to win the fight, i dont think he won the fight but for argument sake i can still argue that Hagler did not win because he did not win 7 rounds which is what he would of needed to have won.

Now this was supposed to be a close fight apparently ? so that dictates that the rounds were close yes ? well there have to be quite a few rounds that were open to interpretation yes ? Leonard won/ Hagler gave away 4/5 rounds quite clearly yes? this is the problem i have its supposed to be a close fight where the rounds are open to interpretation but Leonard won 4/5 early rounds quite clearly and im sure most would agree with that, now here is my problem, its a close fight like we are led to believe, that means Hagler would of had to get the benefit of the doubt in most of the remaining rounds and Leonard get none of the debatable/swing/close rounds.

You need 6 rounds for a draw. Hagler did not win because Leonard did not lose.

Id like to see a show of hands of who did actually give Hagler 7 rounds

[Dynamite Kid]

So Boxing experts who think Hagler won, are silly fans who are feeding a myth? No one claimed Hagler won easily, but you said the reason the fight was close is because of Hagler's frustration, they were your words. Now your trying to change what you said.

You made a ****** comment and am not the only you has quoted you on it. There is only one silly person around here saying silly things......

There is no such thing as an expert.

No one claimed Hagler won easily, Hagler did and ive heard his fans say it many times.

Well if i wanted to change what i said i can, why should i feel fearful of saying okay maybe i was wrong to say "the reason the fight was close is because of Hagler's frustration " maybe that fight was close in terms of if Leonard won it he only won it by 1/2 rounds but its one of them, you know where we say close fight but you knew who the clear winner was.

Bottom for me is Hagler did not win whether it was close or not. I dont know why you are getting on my case just lately, what have i dont to you to annoy you ?

[Southpaw16BF]

There is no such thing as an expert.

No one claimed Hagler won easily, Hagler did and ive heard his fans say it many times.

Well if i wanted to change what i said i can, why should i feel fearful of saying okay maybe i was wrong to say "the reason the fight was close is because of Hagler's frustration " maybe that fight was close in terms of if Leonard won it he only won it by 1/2 rounds but its one of them, you know where we say close fight but you knew who the clear winner was.

Bottom for me is Hagler did not win whether it was close or not. I dont know why you are getting on my case just lately, what have i dont to you to annoy you ?

All I am saying is the fight could of went either way, and I don't debate people who see it either way. And I don't think the fight was close because of Hagler's frustration.

People who think either fighter won ''Easy'' are wrong. You haven't done anything to me lately, it seems lately do that we have been bumping into each other on threads, and we have not been seeing the same things on decision and fighters. Nothing personal...........

[Dynamite Kid]

All I am saying is the fight could of went either way, and I don't debate people who see it either way. And I don't think the fight was close because of Hagler's frustration.

People who think either fighter won ''Easy'' are wrong. You haven't done anything to me lately, it seems lately do that we have been bumping into each other on threads, and we have not been seeing the same things on decision and fighters. Nothing personal...........

Well im cool with that.

TBH i dont think the fight was that close in terms of doubting who the winner was and i do believe Hagler's reaction makes it more controversial than it is BUT!!! for arguments sake im willing to concede that is was relatively close being that if Leonard DID win he only won by 1/2 rounds, that said i really cannot see how anyone could make a case that Leonard lost and Hagler won without giving Hagler the benefit of of the doubt in most of the close rounds, if he had not given away those 4/5 early rounds then i could see where people are going with it but i think its very unlikely that Hagler could give away those rounds so clearly and then win most of the other rounds when like i said if it was a close fight then those rounds were close and that means he would of gotten the benefit of the doubt in those remaining rounds.

This fight was a 12 rounder, he gives away 4/5 rounds in an evidently close fight and he(Hagler) sweeps 7 of the next 7/8 rounds without Leonard getting at least 2 of those rounds to earn himself a draw. Its just not realistic to me.

[princemanspoper]

Technially you don't need to win seven rounds of a twelve round bout to win a fight,Six rounds is enough on a 6-5-1 scoring,That is the greatest argument you can give to Hagler really and even then it doesn't fit the robbery mold that Hagler and his fanboys claim,A fight that was supposed to be a mismatch turned into a disputed decision


I still want to see an argument from a Hagler fan for him winning the fight clearly

[Sugarj]

I've watched this fight many times, one of my faves. I've scored the fight several times and the most rounds I can find in Hagler's favour are 5.

Like it or not, the rounds that Leonard won were clearer than the rounds that Hagler shaded to add to the mix.

I do blame Hagler's preparation and the Petronelli's corner work. Hagler coming out orthodox was a foolish, egotistical move, no suprise that he threw away the first four rounds. He was far more effective as a southpaw. In between rounds the Petronelli's advice lacked any sense of urgency.........they had to know it was close! I seem to remember Gill Clancy colour commentating that they were speaking to Hagler like it was 'an IBM meeting'.

Much as I'd like to find a way for Hagler to win this one I always have Leonard as the points victor. If Hagler had come out southpaw in the beginning and shown a little more zip early he could well have got the decision.........it would have still been a great performance by Leonard, his pride would be intact and we could have looked forward to the likes of Hagler/Hearns 2, Hagler/Duran 2 and possibly Hagler vs Benn. Crying shame!

[Dynamite Kid]

I've watched this fight many times, one of my faves. I've scored the fight several times and the most rounds I can find in Hagler's favour are 5.

Like it or not, the rounds that Leonard won were clearer than the rounds that Hagler shaded to add to the mix.

I do blame Hagler's preparation and the Petronelli's corner work. Hagler coming out orthodox was a foolish, egotistical move, no suprise that he threw away the first four rounds. He was far more effective as a southpaw. In between rounds the Petronelli's advice lacked any sense of urgency.........they had to know it was close! I seem to remember Gill Clancy colour commentating that they were speaking to Hagler like it was 'an IBM meeting'.

Much as I'd like to find a way for Hagler to win this one I always have Leonard as the points victor. If Hagler had come out southpaw in the beginning and shown a little more zip early he could well have got the decision.........it would have still been a great performance by Leonard, his pride would be intact and we could have looked forward to the likes of Hagler/Hearns 2, Hagler/Duran 2 and possibly Hagler vs Benn. Crying shame!

Agree, i have also tried to score that fight in favour of Hagler and give him the benefit of the doubt in the close round but is still did not have him winning. This is a fight that really infuriates me because people make out Hagler got a raw deal and that Leonard did not win, when i think most people know Leonard won deep down, even Hagler fans.

[Benncollinsaad]

No offence to any Latinos, but Latinos are poor judges. They are very often partial. Like the mug who gave Ruiz the decision over Chagaev! They tend to support their own fighters very often, even when they lose clearly. Black judges aren't much better, but Latinos are definitely the worst judges.

[Sugarj]

Quote
'Agree, i have also tried to score that fight in favour of Hagler and give him the benefit of the doubt in the close round but is still did not have him winning. This is a fight that really infuriates me because people make out Hagler got a raw deal and that Leonard did not win, when i think most people know Leonard won deep down, even Hagler fans.'


I think this fight falls into a similar grouping with De La Hoya vs Trinidad. The problem is that Trinidad got the decision! I can never find 6 or more rounds for Trinidad in that fight! Hagler, like Trinidad (with Oscar) finished strongly over Leonard and may well have left his fans wishing it was a fifteen round fight. Round twelve saw two very good flurries from Leonard, an Ali shuffle and a hell of a lot of running, Hagler did finish at least aggressively. If Hagler had got the decision there would surely have been an even bigger outcry, most people I know think Leonard deserved the decision.

Alot of people favour the guy going forward, which Hagler certainly did and I know some respected boxing writers saw it for Hagler, but I'd doubt they would actually be able to score the fight for him on a round by round basis, he gave too much away early.