Marvin Hagler vs. Ray Leonard

[Stoppage]

I had Leonard winning the fight.

[Kid McCoy]

No he lost.

Leonard got the decision because he won more rounds, thats why ITV's Reg Gutridge, Jim Watt were leaning towards Leonard on the ITV telecast aswell

Even if you dont think Hagler lost he certainly did not beat Leonard because he gave away too many rounds, you only need 6 not to lose.

Hagler winning the fight is a myth created out of Hagler's own frustration.

No it's called an opinion. Hugh McIlvanney thought Hagler won, Budd Schulberg thought Hagler won, Harry Gibbs thought Hagler won and one judge thought Hagler won. It was a close fight with opinions split.

[Dynamite Kid]

No it's called an opinion. Hugh McIlvanney thought Hagler won, Budd Schulberg thought Hagler won, Harry Gibbs thought Hagler won and one judge thought Hagler won. It was a close fight with opinions split.

That said id hazzard a guess majority people had Hagler losing.

However like i said even if you dont think Leonard won there is no way he did not win 6 rounds of that fight to at least make sure he did not lose.

[Dynamite Kid]

For Hagler to have won 7 rounds of that fight you would have to give him the benift of the doubt in most of the swing rounds and 7 rounds is what he would of needed to of beaten Leonard.

Hagler did not win because Leonard did not lose, whether you think Leonard won can be debated.

[Kid McCoy]

That said id hazzard a guess majority people had Hagler losing.

However like i said even if you dont think Leonard won there is no way he did not win 6 rounds of that fight to at least make sure he did not lose.

Like I said it's only an opinion, and there's a billion different ways of judging a fight. No amount of browbeating will convince half the boxing world that one of the most disputed decisions in boxing history was an obvious win for the other guy.

[Dynamite Kid]

Like I said it's only an opinion, and there's a billion different ways of judging a fight. No amount of browbeating will convince half the boxing world that one of the most disputed decisions in boxing history was an obvious win for the other guy.

My point is........ its only one of the most disputed because of a bad reaction by a particular fighter. The fight was close but ive seen much closer fights, that said no one is going to convince me Hagler won 7 rounds of that fight, he clearly gave away 4/5 rounds quite decisively and like i said he would of needed the benefit of the doubt in most of the swing rounds to of pulled 7 rounds out of that fight, and if you are giving Hagler 7 rounds of that fight you being biased imo, because that says you have leaned towards Hagler in all the swing rounds and given him the benefit of the doubt in most of the close rounds, so i dont see how its realistic to score the fight for Hagler.

Like i said Hagler did not win because Leonard did not lose.

[Kid McCoy]

My point is........ its only one of the most disputed because of a bad reaction by a particular fighter. The fight was close but ive seen much closer fights, that said no one is going to convince me Hagler won 7 rounds of that fight, he clearly gave away 4/5 rounds quite decisively and like i said he would of needed the benefit of the doubt in most of the swing rounds to of pulled 7 rounds out of that fight, and if you are giving Hagler 7 rounds of that fight you being biased imo, because that says you have leaned towards Hagler in all the swing rounds and given him the benefit of the doubt in most of the close rounds.

Like i said Hagler did not win because Leonard did not lose.

No it's one of the most disputed decisions because a lot of people still dispute it. Why else would we be having this discussion now, 22 years after the event? Clearly not everyone saw the fight the same way you did. It's like claiming Larry Holmes pitched a clear shut-out over Tim Witherspoon or Pacquiao did the same over Marquez. I could argue that not giving Hagler any of the first five rounds is to be as biased towards Leonard as you're saying others are to Hagler.

I named three pretty respected boxing people who thought Hagler won. You don't have to agree with them, but it does show that opinion was not as unanimous for Leonard as you were saying. I had it 6-5-1 for Hagler, but I acknowledge it was a close one and don't object to anyone who had Leonard winning a close one.

[Dynamite Kid]

No it's one of the most disputed decisions because a lot of people still dispute it. Why else would we be having this discussion now, 22 years after the event? Clearly not everyone saw the fight the same way you did. It's like claiming Larry Holmes pitched a clear shut-out over Tim Witherspoon or Pacquiao did the same over Marquez. I could argue that not giving Hagler any of the first five rounds is to be as biased towards Leonard as you're saying others are to Hagler.

I named three pretty respected boxing people who thought Hagler won. You don't have to agree with them, but it does show that opinion was not as unanimous for Leonard as you were saying. I had it 6-5-1 for Hagler, but I acknowledge it was a close one and don't object to anyone who had Leonard winning a close one.

Its disputed because not only did Hagler say he won but that he was robbed hence people getting their teeth into it and over exaggerating like Hagler clearly won.

Would you look at someone with a raised brow if they gave that fight to Hagler by 7 rounds ? if you do the maths he would of had to of taken most of the swing rounds and you would of probably not have given Leonard any to score 7 for Hagler because im sure you will agree he won 4/5 rounds quite decisive did Leonard.

Yes i know but on the Holmes fight there were 15 rounds to decide who won. This was a 12 round fight where Hagler clearly gave away 4/5 rounds and you only need 6 to get a draw, meaning Hagler would of needed 7 rounds and it just not realistic in my eyes to say he won the fight because there are only so many rounds uyp for grabs, Holmes vs Witherspoon was a 15 rounds there more rounds up for grabs so more room for interpretation.


It makes no difference who had Hagler winning, if they gave him 7 rounds logic dictates they gave him benefit of the doubt in most close rounds and did not give Leonard any. Leonard did not lose this fight, i know it Hagler knows it and deep down so did Hagler fans.

I thought Leonard won clearly, and ive tried to score the fight for Hagler and give him the benefit of the doubt and i still had Leonard winning, that said, like i said even if Hagler won more rounds than i think there is no way he won 7 rounds, not with all the early rounds he gave away/lost.

[Southpaw16BF]

Hagler winning the fight is a myth created out of Hagler's own frustration.

What a ****** comment, like people have said numerous boxing writers, fans, trainers and 1 judge had Hagler winning, and not because they saw Hagler being frustrated it's because they actually thought Hagler won the fight.

It was a extremley close fight and I have no problem with people debating it either way. But to say Hagler winning the fight is a myth because he of his frustration is 110% bogus.

[Dynamite Kid]

What a ****** comment, like people have said numerous boxing writers, fans, trainers and 1 judge had Hagler winning, and not because they saw Hagler being frustrated it's because they actually thought Hagler won the fight.

It was a extremley close fight and I have no problem with people debating it either way. But to say Hagler winning the fight is a myth because he of his frustration is 110% bogus.

No its 100% correct but silly fans who like to feed myths keep it going, Hagler never made out it was close he made out he won clearly, which he did not.

Hagler did not win 7 rounds and i deffy anyone to find 7 rounds where they did not give all the close rounds to Hagler. If you give 7 to Hagler it means you gave no close rounds to Leonard, fact!!!