When should have ali retired?

[Sugarj]

After George Foreman lost to Jimmy Young and quit boxing. At that point Ali had no reason to continue. The trilogies with Frazier and Norton were past and the heavily anticipated rematch with Foreman was no longer going to happen.

That would make the 3rd Ken Norton fight Ali's last.

That would have been fine.

I think the seeds for Parkinsons had still been sown though. I think Ali would still be in a similar condition to that which he is today even if he had retired then.

[hayZ]

After Manilla he should have retired. Out on a high, ended the rivalry...he never looked the same after that fight.

[Panthershock]

That would have been fine.

I think the seeds for Parkinsons had still been sown though. I think Ali would still be in a similar condition to that which he is today even if he had retired then.

my belief is that Ali inevitably was going to end up with Parkinson's. For whatever reason, his brain was very fragile to the trauma incurred in boxing. Prior to the Holmes fight, he had trouble with basic reflex and coordination testing done during a routine physical. His speech was also diminishing, this is all before he turned 40. Perhaps he would have been in better condition if he never came back after the 1967-1970 exile, but I'm not sure. He may have just been too susceptible to brain damage to box at all without long term ramifications

[Sugarj]

my belief is that Ali inevitably was going to end up with Parkinson's. For whatever reason, his brain was very fragile to the trauma incurred in boxing. Prior to the Holmes fight, he had trouble with basic reflex and coordination testing done during a routine physical. His speech was also diminishing, this is all before he turned 40. Perhaps he would have been in better condition if he never came back after the 1967-1970 exile, but I'm not sure. He may have just been too susceptible to brain damage to box at all without long term ramifications

Its true, his speach was deteriorating throughout the late 70s, well before Holmes.

I'd like to think that if his boxing career ended with the 1967 ban that he could still have been just as articulate and charismatic even now, we'll never know.

All I can say is that I never saw any symptom of Parkinsons prior to the third Frazier fight.

[SBleeder]

Its true, his speach was deteriorating throughout the late 70s, well before Holmes.

I'd like to think that if his boxing career ended with the 1967 ban that he could still have been just as articulate and charismatic even now, we'll never know.

All I can say is that I never saw any symptom of Parkinsons prior to the third Frazier fight.

We never saw the symptoms, but that doesn't mean that the condition wasn't already developing.

As for the original question, I'd have liked to see him hang up the gloves after Manila. Nothing left to prove after that fight. Anyone who ever questioned that he could go to war (figuratively) was silenced by that fight. Who would honestly have cared if he didn't settle the score with Norton? The third Norton fight did very little for Ali's legacy, positive or negative. Many people think he lost it anyways, and Norton was past his prime by that point in my opinion.

[Mintcar923]

No need to fight Leon Spinks, thats 30 rounds considering the health of Ali now, after Shavers, it was the right time to retire, yes he'd comeback to fight Larry Holmes, his record should be 55-3. the Berbick fight was also unnecessary and ill-advised.

Funny, some people thought he actually beat Trevor. But, he did not belong in the ring with Larry that night in '80...

[Sugarj]

We never saw the symptoms, but that doesn't mean that the condition wasn't already developing.

As for the original question, I'd have liked to see him hang up the gloves after Manila. Nothing left to prove after that fight. Anyone who ever questioned that he could go to war (figuratively) was silenced by that fight. Who would honestly have cared if he didn't settle the score with Norton? The third Norton fight did very little for Ali's legacy, positive or negative. Many people think he lost it anyways, and Norton was past his prime by that point in my opinion.

Very true on all counts. So many medical conditions can creep up without perceivable symptoms. Even though Ali looked in perfect health before Manilla, we don't know what might have been developing.

As for Norton 3, yes he didn't need that fight.

[Sugarj]

Funny, some people thought he actually beat Trevor. But, he did not belong in the ring with Larry that night in '80...

He did win a few rounds against Trevor Berbick and looked better than the overmedicated shell that turned up for Holmes. I've got the fight on DVD. He was overweight though.

But he certainly was suffering from the early signs of Parkinsons. His reflexes were awful, some of the rounds he lost had some sickening head blows and he looked unsteady and ungraceful when he danced. It was very sad to see.

The worst thing was comparing his speech in the pre fight press conferences to the post fight interview. A shocking deterioration!

If he had somehow sneeked a decision, he'd have started calling out Holmes again!!!!

[SBleeder]

If he had somehow sneeked a decision, he'd have started calling out Holmes again!!!!

I can't imagine that that fight would have sold again.

[extant]

The third Frazier fight was for THEM! But I think it was a bad fight for both men. They took some great shots in that fight and dealt with high heat conditions, both men were spent after 13 rounds. Thats when your health is in jepardy. The reason the 15 rounders are gone is because deep water has not standing room! It was a great fight for the fans but a bad fight for Ali & Joe! I'm for the fighters best interests, I never met Joe but his reputation speaks volumns for his character. I worked briefly for Ali and behind the sceens he was a man who cared about people and was a very different person from his "boxing personality"!
I must admitt when he disrobed against Holmes I thought I was seeing Ali at the Miami gym weighing in at 210lbs WOW! Ali at 6' 3 1/4 at 210lbs was an unbeatible boxer, to me only Joe Louis would have a chance. Ray.

Perhaps you should explain to the folks what "THEM" represents. Everyone in this forum may not be familiar with the NOI or read Mr "Little's" Autobiography.