Theory on how to beat a Cus D'Amato style fighter...

[Mintcar923]

Sory, Mint....but Douglas clearly won that bout by boxing and outclassing Tyson. He backed him up after he dissected him. You are way, way off on this one and I'm not sure what your agenda is.

Mike got that ass beat very badly in that fight....'cause he was a stubby dude in with a 6'4" 231lb guy who was boxing like lightning.

Buster did back him up after he had tired. Nevertheless, when he did back him up was when he was in real trouble!

[StarshipTrooper]

I couldn't agree more. Even at his absolute best Tyson would have struggled with Douglas that night, as I always thought Buster at his best was actually a better version of Riddick Bowe with more speed and a better jab to set up an overhand right.

Box, move, solid jab, followed by a right hand. But the key is moving. If you can't move, Tyson could time your punches and come up from underneath very fast and land a big shot. Guys like Buster are able to box and move and that is very problematic for a fighter like Tyson because getting the opponent where you want him is very difficult if he's being kept at bay with a jab.

Good analysis.....Douglas was such a waste of talent. Then again so was Riddick Bowe.

Poet

[damuttz112]

I understand that Tillis is considered a 'poor mans' Ali. I'm just giving my opinion on how I think Ali would be able to trouble Tyson.

Muhammad Ali and his use of Lateral Movement ('Dancing'). It would frustrate Tyson being unable to explode into combinations. The simple technique of 'moving backwards' eg.



Tyson overcompensates by launching himself.

Tillis backward movement causes Tyson to overreach to get contact, due to overcompensating it leaves him open for counter. He has to reset again.

Lennox Lewis - "One of Tyson's weaknesses as Douglas showed was the Uppercut."


Tillis just outside of Tyson's Jab, he is able to land a clean uppercut and get out of Tyson's range safely by using Lateral Movement.

[damuttz112]

Same again but with the Left Hook.


Ali is a known Head-Hunter, here Tillis is able to get 3 shots off before Tyson forces the clinch.

I understand Tillis was UD by Tyson. But in some parts he frustrated and confused Tyson just by the use of Lateral Movement, Left-hooks, & Uppercuts. Ali would be able to perform this much faster and for a longer period of time. Once again Lateral Movement is the key who is known for hitting and not getting hit? Ali. Ali in his prime was a master of hitting on the back-foot. He's also got a great chin.

[Daddy T]

Same again but with the Left Hook.


Ali is a known Head-Hunter, here Tillis is able to get 3 shots off before Tyson forces the clinch.

I understand Tillis was UD by Tyson. But in some parts he frustrated and confused Tyson just by the use of Lateral Movement, Left-hooks, & Uppercuts. Ali would be able to perform this much faster and for a longer period of time. Once again Lateral Movement is the key who is known for hitting and not getting hit? Ali. Ali in his prime was a master of hitting on the back-foot. He's also got a great chin.

yeah tillis frustrated tyson alright but it was also the first time tyson was pushed to go the distance and he was conscious of that and reluctant to let his hands go. He was much better in his next fight v green who also tried to confuse and frustrate him with movement but ended up losing pretty much every round against a mike that was much more active and confident in his ability to go the distance. Tyson got much better at closing down this type of fighter as he went along - eg biggs. I would say however that this type of style gave him more difficulties than the come forward and brawl approach suggested in this thread which simply played perfectly into his hands - and i'm refering always to prime or pretty much prime mike here - any mentions of danny freaking williams or whatever will be justly ignored.

[damuttz112]

yeah tillis frustrated tyson alright but it was also the first time tyson was pushed to go the distance and he was conscious of that and reluctant to let his hands go. He was much better in his next fight v green who also tried to confuse and frustrate him with movement but ended up losing pretty much every round against a mike that was much more active and confident in his ability to go the distance. Tyson got much better at closing down this type of fighter as he went along - eg biggs. I would say however that this type of style gave him more difficulties than the come forward and brawl approach suggested in this thread which simply played perfectly into his hands - and i'm refering always to prime or pretty much prime mike here - any mentions of danny freaking williams or whatever will be justly ignored.

I understand that, I was just backing up my opinion on how Ali may of approached the fight against Tyson. The reason I chose Tillis is because out of all opponents pre-Douglas he was the only fighter for the early part of the fight that was at least attempting to outbox Tyson rather than simply survive. He hired Tillis as a sparring partner after this fight. lol But are there problems with Taller movers that are quick and can jab.

[res]

yeah tillis frustrated tyson alright but it was also the first time tyson was pushed to go the distance and he was conscious of that and reluctant to let his hands go.

But if he had let his hands go enough to ko him, it wouldn't have gone the distance.

And Tillis looked better than Green even in the early rounds.

[StarshipTrooper]

But if he had let his hands go enough to ko him, it wouldn't have gone the distance.

And Tillis looked better than Green even in the early rounds.

There's also a big talent gap between Tillis (who was a perennial contender) and Green (who never made it past journeyman status).

Poet

[Cardinal Buck]

Tillis wasn't the only Ali impersonator Tyson fought. He just made Tyson look the worst unless you're counting Buster too. A lot of those 80s guys had shades of Ali. Biggs probably more than anyone. In other words, if Ali were gonna beat Tyson it wouldn't be because of a stylistic problem.

[res]

Tillis wasn't the only Ali impersonator Tyson fought. He just made Tyson look the worst unless you're counting Buster too. A lot of those 80s guys had shades of Ali. Biggs probably more than anyone. In other words, if Ali were gonna beat Tyson it wouldn't be because of a stylistic problem.

If someone is going to beat another quality fighter because of a stylistic problem it is naturally understood that they must have other attributes such as toughness, speed cleverness etc. in order to prevail . The point is that if a third rate fighter like Tillis can cause Tyson a few problems with this style, it gives us some insight into an Al/ Tyson match.

We would take the best example out of those 80's fighters because none of these guys are anywhere near Ali's level anyway.