Let's say all heavyweight greats were in the same era?

[Sexual biscuit]

Actually, I was watching the fight before he fought Liston. So maybe he was green then, miraculously turned prime and learned how to not get caught by left hooks, and then forgot again after his exile. You sound mad.

He toyed with cooper and anyone with half a brain could see that.. he never fought seriously at all.. granted that was his fault but it happens..and he rolled most of the punches easily

[Sugarj]

Indeed Furys handspeed and workrate have been impressive lately but then again Ricky Hatton looked impressive on punch bags before the Manny fight..
and not that Ricky isn't great I'm just pointing out Fury has been fighting punch drunk old men recently..

He looked clumsy against Chisora at some stages

Tyson Fury will look clumsy for some time, he has only had a few fights. My point was in relation to his handspeed. For a 6ft 9 guy, that guys upperbody coordination and handspeed are quite impressive. These big guys are getting faster as the generations pass.

As for Ricky Hatton, his problem became punch resistance. After campaigning at welterweight and being knocked out by Mayweather........not to mention the ridiculous weight he was shedding in training camps reaching light welterweight 'again' he simply couldn't hold punches like he once did. The huge punches of Tszyu that he once walked through were a far cry from the much lighter punches of Lascano, who gave him serious trouble.

No one could complain about the punches that Pac landed though, they were sickening!

[res]

Actually, I was watching the fight before he fought Liston. So maybe he was green then, miraculously turned prime and learned how to not get caught by left hooks, and then forgot again after his exile. You sound mad.

Yet you said this about Lewis

He wouldn't fight lazy like in those fights if he fought all the best guys though. [

It didn't occur to you that this is far more applicable to Ali in the Cooper fight?

Ali before the fight said the Cooper fight was a joke and it was simply a warm up for Sonny Liston. Angelo Dundee was screaming at Ali the entire fight to get to business and stop clowning around. The commentators were talking about Ali clowning around and not taking it seriously. So if you're going to contend that Lewis didn't take those two fights seriously against higher ranked competitors than Cooper was at the time, you have to do it here.

Take a look at how Ali handled a guy who was faster and had an even more dangerous left hook than Cooper: Floyd Patterson. He completely dominated him. Why? Because he happened to respect him just a tad bit more than Cooper.

[Cardinal Buck]

Yet you said this about Lewis



It didn't occur to you that this is far more applicable to Ali in the Cooper fight?

Ali before the fight said the Cooper fight was a joke and it was simply a warm up for Sonny Liston. Angelo Dundee was screaming at Ali the entire fight to get to business and stop clowning around. The commentators were talking about Ali clowning around and not taking it seriously. So if you're going to contend that Lewis didn't take those two fights seriously against higher ranked competitors than Cooper was at the time, you have to do it here.

Take a look at how Ali handled a guy who was faster and had an even more dangerous left hook than Cooper: Floyd Patterson. He completely dominated him. Why? Because he happened to respect him just a tad bit more than Cooper.

...Frazier had no problem with the left hook either. Habitual line-stepping.

[res]

...Frazier had no problem with the left hook either. Habitual line-stepping.

Yes but what you don't get is that it wasn't the left hook by itself that gave Ali problems, it was Frazier's persistent brawling style (and his willingness to take whatever punishment he had to in order to land it). The left hook was merely the tool. Again, Patterson was just as fast if not faster than Frazier, but if you try to land the left hook on Ali by hitting him while trying not to get hit, he is going to usually outfox you.

You need to be a balls to the wall brawler to do what Frazier did as consistently as he did it. Punish the body round after round to slow Ali down, take Ali's shots, punish the body some more, take more Ali shots, then as he slows down come upstairs

[Sexual biscuit]

Your arrogance is not very amusing. It's really just a matter of opinion who's the best ever. Some have Louis #1. And some have Marciano #1. George Foreman had proclaimed Lewis the best ever after Lewis-Tyson. And he'd been in in the ring with Muhammad Ali & many other top fighters. I'm not saying Lewis is better than Ali. But, he definitely belongs up there with him. He's the only other 3 time heavyweight champ. And he had defeated every man he ever faced as a professional. Lennox had 2 off nights. Well, Ali had a few, too.

Foreman and Manny Steward also praised prince Naseem as being the best featherweight of all time..

[Sexual biscuit]

Yes but what you don't get is that it wasn't the left hook by itself that gave Ali problems, it was Frazier's persistent brawling style (and his willingness to take whatever punishment he had to in order to land it). The left hook was merely the tool. Again, Patterson was just as fast if not faster than Frazier, but if you try to land the left hook on Ali by hitting him while trying not getting hit, he is going to usually outfox you.

You need to be a balls to the wall brawler to do what Frazier did as consistently as he did. Punish the body round after round to slow Ali down, take Ali's shots, punish the body some more, take more shots, then as he slows down come upstairs

something which lewis doesn't have the ability to do... and again this is prime we're supposed to be discussing..
This is the reason Ali is great because even when his speed,legs and stamina deserted him he could still beat the best and baddest in the world...

[damuttz112]

Ali's problem was he could not properly (or refused to) parry a good jab, that's why he had problems with Norton and was susceptible to left hooks (Banks, Cooper, Frazier & Norton). I love Ali and I reckon he takes this tournament, but he was fundamentally flawed. But due to his blessed athleticism, speed, grace, Iron Chin, Heart and ultimately his undying will he is next to Louis if not the Greatest Heavyweight of all time.

[res]

Ali's problem was he could not properly (or refused to) parry a good jab, that's why he had problems with Norton and was susceptible to left hooks (Banks, Cooper, Frazier & Norton). I love Ali and I reckon he takes this tournament, but he was fundamentally flawed. But due to his blessed athleticism, speed, grace, Iron Chin, Heart and ultimately his undying will he is next to Louis if not the Greatest Heavyweight of all time.

You think Ali couldn't handle the jab?

As it has been said over and over again when Norton is brought up, what made Norton a terror for Ali was his famous crab defense which in part neutralizes work off the jab, and is problematic for any Boxer puncher. That is why Larry Holmes also struggled against him, and a version of him that was past prime..

[Cardinal Buck]

Yes but what you don't get is that it wasn't the left hook by itself that gave Ali problems, it was Frazier's persistent brawling style (and his willingness to take whatever punishment he had to in order to land it). The left hook was merely the tool. Again, Patterson was just as fast if not faster than Frazier, but if you try to land the left hook on Ali by hitting him while trying not to get hit, he is going to usually outfox you.

You need to be a balls to the wall brawler to do what Frazier did as consistently as he did it. Punish the body round after round to slow Ali down, take Ali's shots, punish the body some more, take more Ali shots, then as he slows down come upstairs

And he'd face a few of them in this round robin or whatever it is.