Does Roy Jones deserve to be considered an elite ATG?

[StarshipTrooper]

You really believe RJJ is in the top 20? Not saying he is not, but I wouldn't have expected you'd have him that high

Last time I did a p4p list I had Jones at #15 all-time. Obama wasn't keen on it but it is what it is. I have Sweet Pea Whitaker in the top-20 too.

Poet

[The Surgeon]

If Roy Jones Jnr wasn't a great fighter then i honestly don't know who the hell was....

Breathtaking speed and talent, a modern genius of the game, Nuff said.

[McGrain]

Well, i'd say there is a difference between improving and being green.

Sure.

I'll just say that I don't think Jones beat a great fighter when he beat Hopkins.

[SCtrojansbaby]

One of the most annoying things I always hear about Roy is this arbritrary idea that he was green at 160. Green my ass, This Roy :



is as great as Roy has ever been he just maintained that level for over 10+ years. Roy was a rare fighter who was just a complete fighter right out the gate people aren't used to that, I guess thats why people assume he was green.

As for Hopkins, his style changed but he was still the same caliber of fighter as he was when ever you consider to be his prime there is really nothing to indicate otherwise

[res]

Sure.

I'll just say that I don't think Jones beat a great fighter when he beat Hopkins.

Was he perceptibly an "all time great" at that time? Certainly not. Was he a "great fighter" at that point? Definitely.

[WESS]

Of course he is an ATG... nobody can refute that without lying.

[McGrain]

Was he perceptibly an "all time great" at that time? Certainly not. Was he a "great fighter" at that point? Definitely.

I disagree. I think any MW you care to label great would have beaten 22-0-1 Hopkins. I don't think he qualifies as great at all.

Would many 20-0 fighters have beaten him? Different question, but a better one.

[Mintcar923]

No offense, but you sound like you don't know what you are talking about at all. There was very little luck involved in the Tarver KO, NO luck at all in the Glen Johnson KO, he was completely washed up and embarrassed against Calzaghe, had one brief moment in the third Tarver fight but lost a lopsided fight, and was knocked out in one by a decent fighter in Danny Green, if Green is even that.

Did you seriously just compare Jones knocking out Montell Griffin to Danny Green knocking out Roy? Do you give Denis Lebedev tons of credit for beating Roy and James Toney, because they are unfairly perceived as shot in your mind?

Roy was not "still a decent fighter" when the Hopkins rematch happened. He was flat out done, in every way. Either you don't know what you are talking about, or you are trolling.

I'm not saying all these things as a statement of fact. I'm just being objective. I think it's only right to give fighters some brownie points for being good in their old age. I think B-Hop deserves "some" credit for beating Jones in the rematch. Even if both were somewhat on the slide. Why even have that rematch if the results are completely meaningless. If Jones had won would B-Hop be percieved as "shot?"

Yes, I'm sure many agree Roy is totally shot "now." He was a phenom earlier in his career and I'm not denying that. But, B-Hop was an all around great fighter, too. And we shouldn't discredit any one of a fighters victories whether it's late in his career or not. Especially, if people give Big George props for being the oldest heavyweight champ in history. Do you get my drift? Yes, I do agree that Roy may have been the ultimate boxer in his prime. So if anyone thinks I'm knocking him, I'm not...

[THE REED]

Not suddenly shot in 2011. I meant suddenly percieved as shot when he started his losing streak. Yes, he was considerably older in Hopkins 2. But, then what the hell was Bernard?? Let's not give B-Hop any credit for the win because they hadn't had their re-match earlier before he was "shot." It's just simply unfair to Hopkins. Besides, I think he wanted the fight to happen in years prior, as well. But, I'm not sure Roy did.

You know, Tarver 2 may have just have been a lucky punch. The Glen Johnson fight, also. Roy also lost to a much lesser known Danny Green. But, then B-Hop also had a bad night earlier in his career against a relative unknown who's name escapes me. Was B-Hop shot?? Oh, Roy KO's Montell Griffin in the first round. Umm, maybe cause Griffin was shot at that time. Let's discredit Jones. It's kinda like a double standard, here. RJJ may not have been in his prime several years ago but he was still a decent fighter.

Age has nothing to do with if a fighter is shot or not.

Fernando Vargas is 34 right now.

You sound ignorant to the entire situation... Roy hadnt beaten a top contender since 2004. That was 7 years prior. Get a clue. Why was Roy suddenly perceived as shot? Listen to yourself, ffs.

[THE REED]

This dudes comparinng Bernard beating roy in the rematch to Foreman KOing Moorer.

I mean wtf is going on in here.