Shavers vs Joe Louis

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I think the big thing difference here, is that Schmeling was a smart boxer who systematically broke down Louis. He was very methodical about it. That is not Shavers, to me he has a decent puncher's chance because Louis' chin is not Ali's or Holmes', but that is about it! Because IMO he is not going to systemically land all right hands Schmeling landed, not even a fraction (which could be sufficient considering his insane power).

[Sugarj]

I'd argue Shavers would need 30 fights to pull off an upset.

Maybe!

But when Louis had an off night, he really could look very average and beatable. He still had enough to usually beat his opponents......but the likes of Galento, Farr, Schmelling & Conn (Louis's more notable off night opponents)did not hit nearly as hard as Shavers......and it was rare for Earnie to not land something devestating over the course of a fight. It would be quite risky for anything other than a well motivated Joe Louis.

At the end of the day the Louis from Schmelling 2 beats Shavers all day every day. But Joe wasn't always that good or fired up.

[Barn]

Maybe!

But when Louis had an off night, he really could look very average and beatable. He still had enough to usually beat his opponents......but the likes of Galento, Farr, Schmelling & Conn (Louis's more notable off night opponents)did not hit nearly as hard as Shavers......and it was rare for Earnie to not land something devestating over the course of a fight. It would be quite risky for anything other than a well motivated Joe Louis.

At the end of the day the Louis from Schmelling 2 beats Shavers all day every day. But Joe wasn't always that good or fired up.

He made 25 defences of the title!

If he had bad off nights I'm sure they would be exposed.

Farr was his first defence. It's understandable he would be tense for that fight and I'd say Farr was a bit better than Shavers.

Schmeling was a World Champion, ATG arguably. Very good fundamental fighter. The opposite of everything Shavers is. Louis was also not prime for that fight. A little green and under prepared if you ask me. It was meant as a tune up for a title fight.

Same story with Conn. ATG fighter bad style match-up. Shavers has no such advantages.

Joe after the Schmeling fight was always fired up and ready to go 15 rounds and in excellent condition.

He didn't have that bad a night to KO Galento in 4. One off balance sort of wild right hand countered with a left hook was the only mistake Louis made. He was up at 2 and continued to hit Galento at will. Galento is an awkward fighter to fight. His head movememnt is actually respectable and he can lunge in with good hard counters and make it rough on the inside. Think Mike Tyson just out of shape a little less power and much less skilled.

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Maybe!

But when Louis had an off night, he really could look very average and beatable. He still had enough to usually beat his opponents......but the likes of Galento, Farr, Schmelling & Conn (Louis's more notable off night opponents)did not hit nearly as hard as Shavers......and it was rare for Earnie to not land something devestating over the course of a fight. It would be quite risky for anything other than a well motivated Joe Louis.

At the end of the day the Louis from Schmelling 2 beats Shavers all day every day. But Joe wasn't always that good or fired up.

Schmeling did not stop Louis with one devastating punch! He broke him down. If anything that should tell us that a boxer with a great plan can beat Louis, not that a hardhitter can get lucky and nail him with *one* good punch.

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He made 25 defences of the title!

If he had bad off nights I'm sure they would be exposed.

Farr was his first defence. It's understandable he would be tense for that fight and I'd say Farr was a bit better than Shavers.

Schmeling was a World Champion, ATG arguably. Very good fundamental fighter. The opposite of everything Shavers is. Louis was also not prime for that fight. A little green and under prepared if you ask me. It was meant as a tune up for a title fight.

Same story with Conn. ATG fighter bad style match-up. Shavers has no such advantages.

Joe after the Schmeling fight was always fired up and ready to go 15 rounds and in excellent condition.

He didn't have that bad a night to KO Galento in 4. One off balance sort of wild right hand countered with a left hook was the only mistake Louis made. He was up at 2 and continued to hit Galento at will. Galento is an awkward fighter to fight. His head movememnt is actually respectable and he can lunge in with good hard counters and make it rough on the inside. Think Mike Tyson just out of shape a little less power and much less skilled.

that sums it up. I mean if someone today told you "Margarito can lay right hands at will on judah because mayweather could" what would you think?

[Sugarj]

He made 25 defences of the title!

If he had bad off nights I'm sure they would be exposed.

Farr was his first defence. It's understandable he would be tense for that fight and I'd say Farr was a bit better than Shavers.

Schmeling was a World Champion, ATG arguably. Very good fundamental fighter. The opposite of everything Shavers is. Louis was also not prime for that fight. A little green and under prepared if you ask me. It was meant as a tune up for a title fight.

Same story with Conn. ATG fighter bad style match-up. Shavers has no such advantages.

Joe after the Schmeling fight was always fired up and ready to go 15 rounds and in excellent condition.

He didn't have that bad a night to KO Galento in 4. One off balance sort of wild right hand countered with a left hook was the only mistake Louis made. He was up at 2 and continued to hit Galento at will. Galento is an awkward fighter to fight. His head movememnt is actually respectable and he can lunge in with good hard counters and make it rough on the inside. Think Mike Tyson just out of shape a little less power and much less skilled.

Just the way I see it I'm afraid. I give Shavers a passable chance against an off form/green/or slightly post prime Louis, would that be more acceptable? Ha ha. I think that Shavers measures up at least as good as the majority of Louis's title challengers. I think Shavers would likely beat Farr even with his technical limitations.

Jersey Joe Walcott seemed to bounce right hands off a post prime Louis at will. Braddock and Farr landed a fair share of rights too (Braddock managed a knockdown with one from memory). Shavers was no Jersey Joe by a long stretch but he had enough accuracy and awareness to drill some revolting shots into Holmes and Ali, so its not without some degree of thought that he might catch Louis too.

Dont get me wrong, I think that an on form Louis could do more than a Jerry Quarry.

But Louis was an intelligent fighter in the ring......his best chance against Shavers would be to bomb him out in one, but I think that he would respect Earnie's power and be careful for a few rounds.

I don't think Louis was ever hit quite as heavy as Shavers could. The right hands he was able to land on Holmes/Ali/ Norton etc looked really sick.

I don't mind being in the minority on this one. There are a few lesser fighters that I give a good chance over an off form Louis.

[Sugarj]

Schmeling did not stop Louis with one devastating punch! He broke him down. If anything that should tell us that a boxer with a great plan can beat Louis, not that a hardhitter can get lucky and nail him with *one* good punch.

I think Shavers hit a fair bit harder than Schmelling.

If Louis did ship something truely revolting I don't doubt that he'd get up, how hurt Louis was would determine whether Shavers would land a follow up.

Its only a fantasy match.

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I think Shavers hit a fair bit harder than Schmelling.

If Louis did ship something truely revolting I don't doubt that he'd get up, how hurt Louis was would determine whether Shavers would land a follow up.

Its only a fantasy match.

I agree with you Shavers always has the puncher's chance of course (and he hit much harder than Schmeling). What I am saying is that the fact that Schmeling landed all those right counters, dose not really make it more likely for Shavers to land his. To me the fact that Galento hurt Louis is more relevant to the point. (although Shavers > Galento)

[Sugarj]

I agree with you Shavers always has the puncher's chance of course (and he hit much harder than Schmeling). What I am saying is that the fact that Schmeling landed all those right counters, dose not really make it more likely for Shavers to land his. To me the fact that Galento hurt Louis is more relevant to the point. (although Shavers > Galento)

I think another thing that gets forgotten is that Schmelling did a fair bit of damage in round 4 and put Louis down pretty heavily. If I were hurt that badly I wouldn't be too excited about getting up to face a wild, probably inaccurate and overeager....yet dangerous Earnie Shavers.

[kendom]

Yeah when I'm imagining Louis vs Shavers I'm thinking of the fight with Galento, that left hook that Louis although floored was able to recover very well from. Galento could hit hard (not as hard as Shavers of course) and Shavers was a poor finisher, hes not so much a danger to Louis as Tyson who was an excellent finisher. He tended to get wild as he did with Holmes leaving himself open all over the place, this is dangerous against a powerful counter-puncher with the recuperative ability of Louis.

I see Shavers knocking him down with a big punch and his desperation to end the fight with big swinging punches causes him to leaves himself open to Louis who counters with devastating effect and then knocks him out.