Are Champions born or made?

[GoogleMe]

Boxing is not only about talent. You can be any athletic freak, but you have to be smart to be a top level fighter. There's boxing IQ, and that's somethingh you're born with also.

[kidcaramel]

Pacquiao was born and all champions ever are his children.

This actually made me laugh. Thank you.

[Barry Halls]

Boxing is not only about talent. You can be any athletic freak, but you have to be smart to be a top level fighter. There's boxing IQ, and that's somethingh you're born with also.

people are born with boxing IQ?

I can understand people saying champions are born. That you need a special trait to succeed. But boxing IQ surely, just like chess and similar mental exhibitions are developed.

[MJ223]

IMO born then molded.....

[New England]

you don't need me to tell you a flawless fighter is going to have it easier than a flawed one.


at the top of the game historically you're talking about lots of guys, not all but lots of guys, who trained as hard as they could. no fighter alive was born a great boxer.

talents separate them


that being said lucian bute gassed out in his first fight with andrade and was good as stopped, if not for some horrid refereeing.
hard work in the gym and the fight can overcome talent.

liberado andrade is a pedestrian compared to bute athletically, but the guy showed up in shape and took the necessary steps in the ring

you can take your pick of very good and great fighters as well that made up for a lack of premium all around talent with hard work and craftsmanship
you often find, these guys to be very durable, which is a talent in its own right, but also a product of the conditioning

[KO'er]

Suprised no-one has mentioned nourishment as a factor. ie Nature VS Nourishment.

About that drive, and will. I believe a person can get stronger from what they face in life, or what their parents instill in them. With Pacquiao he came up in abject poverty, he says in his book that this is what motivates him, when he sees hungry people.

There seems to be 2 different schools of thought IMO too. On the one hand, you have a fighter like Marciano who is seeing as having not much skill but a ton of heart and will, and the general consensus is that this is what got him where he is. Then you have fighters like Mayweather, who are viewed with not winning solely through will and heart, but through skill and technnique. Has Mayweathers will or heart every been tested? People will say no because his skills and defence have ever stopped him from getting to that stage in a fight.

But on my personal opinion, I have listened to fighters such as Ali and Mayweather, and they said belief got them to where they are. Like with Ali, alright in the 60's he had the speed and moves, he beat all in his way. Then in the 70's the legs were gone but he still beat the best, ie Frazier, Foreman, Ron Lyle, Shavers. Was it belief that made him win in the 60's, when he was at his fastest? In the 70's the speed and moves where grace where gone, what people would say constituted a big part of his talent "package". But I still think the 70' Ali, if put back into the 60's, would have won all those matches. I also heart Mike Tyson saying boxing is 90-95% mental and 5-10% physical. Mike said Cus D'Amato stated that is was Ali's will that made him win, Ali's character.

It is hard to say, nourishment can play a huge part though.

[N!GGALAS CAGE]

I believe champions are made.

I'll use Mayweather as an example. I really doubt a guy, even one with boxing in his genes would have made it anywhere without hard work, dedication and the right upbringing from his dad and uncles. Sure he may have had the edge just being born into a boxing family, but look at guys like Frazier's sons.

There are many boxers who had upbringings that seemed like boxing would have been the last thing they would have turned to, but made it big anyways. Barrera and Pacquiao come to mind, but there are hundreds of other examples.

[GoogleMe]

people are born with boxing IQ?

I can understand people saying champions are born. That you need a special trait to succeed. But boxing IQ surely, just like chess and similar mental exhibitions are developed.

You need to have an eye for fighting, being able to calculate, see and guess what your opponent does. Adjusting and keep a sense of perspective / overview.
Some can be taught, but you're born with mot of it.

[any craic lad?]

I think the you have to be born with a drive and determination to suceed and the rest will follow.Also a decent bit of luck along the way too helps

[Barry Halls]

You need to have an eye for fighting, being able to calculate, see and guess what your opponent does. Adjusting and keep a sense of perspective / overview.
Some can be taught, but you're born with mot of it.

Thats where our opinions differ. It's like with chess players. They can play several games of chess blindfolded and remember every move and every piece on the board.
Are they born with extraordinary work memory? No. Other things like digits, and placement of various things they often score very slightly above average.

With that said, not everyone will develop the same sense for boxing like the next. There are probably some genetic makeup but even more so is style you fight, experience and training methods.


Tiger Woods is actually a very good example of an athlete who is almost entirely created.
His father was a very mediocre golfer, but a very good teacher. He decided to learn what needed to be done to build an expert golfer, and once Tiger was born the process started.

I'm sure it was the same with Floyd SR and JR. SR knew exactly how Floyd should be molded into what he currently is, and he began the process at a very early age.
The work ethic floyd jr shows is probably in part due to him being abused and forced by his father. This could be the reason their relationship is very strained.

Not everyone will become a champ and certainly not an ATG. But theres alot of various strengths and "talents" that can be used to build an elite fighter combined with great and deliberate practice. Just look at the various great fighters in history. Some traits remain the same among many of them, but it's also a high degree of variety in their strengths, personas and athletic ability.
You can make a lot of genetical composition work.

As for the argument that theres clubfighters who have worked hard their entire life, and haven't gotten anywhere, well, thats probably part true and part exaggeration.
Did they work as hard as floyd? probably not. did they get as good instruction and repetitive work as floyd? certainly not.

It's not just about showing up to practice. You need deliberate practice and the ability to correct the slightest of mistakes. You need to be extremely focused, and not just go through the motions.



Sorry for the wall of text guys. I went off on a rant there, but I'm too stubborn not to press submit. Read it and agree/disagree or just skip it. It's mostly fluff.

I'll try to save the post by posting a video that may motivate some people. I watch it every day and it makes me work harder in life.