Floyd Patterson vs. Gene Tunney

[Yogi]

Besides the first few rounds of his fight with Chuvalo, when he used his legs and boxed from the outside behind the jab, I don't believe I've ever seen Patterson rely on that style for any sustained periods in other fights. Like others have said, what I mostly saw from Patterson was a fighter who aggressively looked to work inside with his combos and mostly came in there behind his leaping left hook. Patterson was a skilled fighter, yes (though I can't see any handspeed difference between him & Tunney, and if it's even there it's just a VERY minor difference & basically irrelevant), but I'm yet another guy who's puzzled by this "master tactician" label put on him...I just don't see it when I watch him.

Once again it seems Butterfly's attempting to spin things as a way of making Ali look better.

[butterfly1964]

Besides the first few rounds of his fight with Chuvalo, when he used his legs and boxed from the outside behind the jab, I don't believe I've ever seen Patterson rely on that style for any sustained periods in other fights. Like others have said, what I mostly saw from Patterson was a fighter who aggressively looked to work inside with his combos and mostly came in there behind his leaping left hook. Patterson was a skilled fighter, yes (though I can't see any handspeed difference between him & Tunney, and if it's even there it's just a VERY minor difference & basically irrelevant), but I'm yet another guy who's puzzled by this "master tactician" label put on him...I just don't see it when I watch him.

Once again it seems Butterfly's attempting to spin things as a way of making Ali look better.

wow, everyone jumps on me i see. when i compare ali's competition with other fighter's competition, i seldom use patterson, so i don't know where you're trying to go with this. again i'll say what i've said before. the films they used to film dempsey and tunney, and everyone else at that time were fast-paced, and everyone would look fast, even rocky marciano would look quick in those old films. so i wouldn't base what you see on those films to find out if dempsey and tunney is faster than patterson.

[Yogi]

the films they used to film dempsey and tunney, and everyone else at that time were fast-paced, and everyone would look fast, even rocky marciano would look quick in those old films. so i wouldn't base what you see on those films to find out if dempsey and tunney is faster than patterson.

Oh, please!

When you watch the first Tunney/Dempsey fight it's pretty obvious that the available footage is filmed at completely normal speed. If you can't judge the film speed by watching the fighters, the referee's speed at which he moves is generally a dead giveaway...And the referee for Tunney/Dempsey I is walking around & moving at the same speed as what you'd see a ref move from the last HBO or Showtime broadcast, which is quite obvious if you watch the fight.

[butterfly1964]

Oh, please!

When you watch the first Tunney/Dempsey fight it's pretty obvious that the available footage is filmed at completely normal speed. If you can't judge the film speed by watching the fighters, the referee's speed at which he moves is generally a dead giveaway...And the referee for Tunney/Dempsey I is walking around & moving at the same speed as what you'd see a ref move from the last HBO or Showtime broadcast, which is quite obvious if you watch the fight.

so you're gonna tell me that that is how they filmed all fights at that time?

[Yogi]

so you're gonna tell me that that is how they filmed all fights at that time?

That question is irrelevant, because I'm talking about one fight in particular and to me, it's clear as ****ing day that the available footage of it is at a completely normal speed.

But to answer you question...From what I see from the old fights, it was in the 1920's when footage became "normal" & was somewhat consistent in capturing the action at a normal speed. You still see a few fight films that are sped up just a little bit (like the rematch), but the first Tunney/Dempsey WAS NOT one of them.

[Yogi]

wow, everyone jumps on me i see.

Hey, if the shoe fits...

[Dempsey1238]

Dempsey Willard is the right speed,
Dempsey had pretty good hand speed, on the level of Patterson if not more.

Dempsey Brennon is the right speed, again fast hand speed, but film is in poor viewing.

Dempsey Carp is the right speed, Dempsey did not respect Carp's power, so you dont see him bobing and weaving around as he often does. Dempsey had hand speed when he knocks out Carp.

Dempsey Gibbions again is the fight speed. Other fight that shows the foot and hand speed of Dempsey.

Dempsey Firpo is slow down. a bit. maybe at the begaining of the match, but it seems a bit slow.

Dempsey Tunney 1 is the right speed, NOW of couse this is a Dempsey that has not fought in 3 years and looks real slow.

Dempsey Sharkey is the right speed, Dempsey is a little faster compare to Tunney 1, but has not relly regain his old speed,

And Dempsey Tunney 2 is speed up a BIT of couse.

[Skydog]

Butterfly,

You're the one who said that older fights make the people look slower when comparing Ali and Tyson. Now, all of a sudden, when you're not praising Ali, the films looked faster.

[Skydog]

And here's my proof:

it took a prime holmes 11 rounds to stop ali, and ali had parkinson's disease, was like 40 years old, and he was on drugs. holmes is better than tyson. so tyson would stop a prime 25yr. ali in three, get out of here! ali is not terrel biggs you idiot! tyson is not as fast as ali, i've watched both of them fight. not only that, but the footage they used to film tyson is far superior to the footage used to film a prime ali, the tyson footage is like high-definition, and the ali footage is hisses and pops and also in black and white; fighters look faster and better in high-def than in b&w, and ali still looked somewhat faster IMO. ali would dance away at tyson's shots and hit him at will. i've seen countless fighters hit tyson who were way slower than ali, so forget about it. frazier barely beat ali when ali was slower and only fought less than 18 rounds in four years, and IMO frazier is better than tyson, not skill wise but had more heart and stamina and would beat tyson in the long run. so your explanation is mad ******ed.

[Yogi]

Dempsey Carp is the right speed, Dempsey did not respect Carp's power, so you dont see him bobing and weaving around as he often does. Dempsey had hand speed when he knocks out Carp.

Dempsey Gibbions again is the fight speed. Other fight that shows the foot and hand speed of Dempsey.

I'd have to watch it again to be sure, but didn't the opening footage of Dempsey/Carpentier start out sped up quite a bit?

That's what I'm remembering and I think it was only that way for the first few moments when the fight footage was captured by the side view (it was only about a single minute of action, if that)...But once the fight went to more of an overhead view, the fight was shown at proper speed and stayed that way throughout the rest of the fight.

And you're right in saying the Gibbons fight is a good showcase for Dempsey's handspeed and especially his footspeed...Loved the catlike & great quickness he showed when closing in on the elusive Gibbons!