Dempsey vs. Marciano

[johnbook]

Holyfield definitely would have defeated Rocky. Had 20-30 pounds over him as a HW, and he took a much better punch.

As far as Ali saying he wasn't sure he would defeat Rocky, that's obviously a charade. Ali was banned then and needed the money and went with that fictional match up. What Ali really thought is clear from his "greatest of all times" oft-repeated mantra.

Hell Larry Holmes jock strap comment is a hint to what modern HWs know to be the truth re CW Marciano.

[The Old LefHook]

Marciano did not retire because Liston was looming. Liston was not on anyone’s radar when Marciano retired.

I’m really amazed by those who place emphasis on size and reach. These are the last things to be considered. Marciano WOULD NOT lose to Holyfield because Holy was bigger nor would he lose to Holy because his reach is longer. Holyfield’s tendency to brawl would be suicide vs prime Marciano.

I doubt that. Holyfield's chin was all time world class itself. Anyone brawling with Marciano would cut him if the wild swinging went on for very long and they could stay awake.

Personally, I do not believe Marciano's punches were as hard as Tyson's.

Holy would probably survive some brawling with Marciano, and that might be long enough to cut Rocky to pieces. There is not a reason in the world for me to believe Marciano even punched as hard as, say, Ray Mercer, none at all. But I do know he had bad skin.

Yes, Holyfield's best bet would be to box and move, but he faced numerous opponents who punched as hard as Marciano. Tyson, Foreman, Morrison, Mercer... and a few more, all punched as hard as Marciano. IMO

I agree that for a man under 190 Rock had a killer punch. However, I do not see it being considered a killer punch in any heavyweight era beyond Patterson's.

There should be no need for myth building. The mere reasonable idea that both Rocky's and Dempsey's punching power would still be considered respectable in an age of padded giants says a lot by itself.

[The Old LefHook]

Hey, administration, what happened to my multiple quadrillions of points? They are gone. What the hell is going on here?

[johnbook]

Anyone know the average age of Rocky's opponents in his title bouts?

[HOUDINI563]

Tyson lacked the will to win that defines an ATG hwt champion.

Again weight and reach are the last things to consider. A great crouching fighter can negate a larger opponents reach.

Marciano was far away from a wild slugger. He was cute in there always ducking, parrying, slipping and countering. Walcott stated he would hit Rocky at will. Was very different story in the ring however. You can see many times Walcott setting traps only to search for Marciano to hit him. Rocky’s head was always a moving target.

[HOUDINI563]

This video provides some nice slow motion of Marciano’s defensive capabilities.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9b0yHvw-vW0

[HOUDINI563]

And another more in depth:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q0cyYjsLtLc

[HOUDINI563]

I have somewhere a video showing Dempsey slip seven consecutive punches thrown by Tunney. Beautiful technique to watch.

[HOUDINI563]

Ali’s comments concerning Marciano occurred while he was champion after knocking out Foreman in 74. Probably the 75-76 time frame. Again Ali stated Marciano was a greater fighter than Frazier (obviously) and he expressed doubt that he could beat Marciano consistently. Further Ali commented on how hard Rocky punched. He could barely hold his gloves up after sparring and they were “just playing”.

[johnbook]

i can appreciate Rocky's defense better after viewing. But weren't his opponents therein all a decade older than him?

But I disagree on the timeline. The Rocky-Ali fictional film was made in 69 and released in 70--see wiki. Ali talked it up then as he was paid. Ali was banned from 67-70. A few weeks after the film came out, Rocky was dead from the plane crash.

Just after Frazier III in Manilla, Ali made clear that he thought Frazier was "the greatest of all times, next to me."

In real life, Ali wouldn't even let Marciano get close to him to hit him on his arms.

I should add that I've seen TV talk shows where Rocky said very nasty things about Ali, and his boxing, I guess after Ali declared his new religion or spoke out against the war on Vietnam.

Ali, unlike Holmes, may have been cautioned to only say nice things about Rocky in public. I don't believe the self-proclaimed "greatest of all times" believed Rocky would hang with him at all.