Liston vs Vitali Klitschko

[BigStereotype]

I honestly think that this is a 50/50 fight. Maybe slightly favoring Liston, but only just. Vitali is a handful for ANYBODY in history, even if he doesn't have the natural tools to out-and-out beat everyone. His ability to use his size advantages to their maximum potential is huge, he's a solid puncher, he can throw everything. Not terribly fast, but neither is Liston, and I think his defense is pretty good too.

Liston is a tremendous offensive force, but he's not terribly hard to hit, especially if he has to come inside on the bigger man. I realize that he has a longer reach, but anyone who tries to tell me that he's bigger than Vitali is just wrong. I think he'd want to charge inside and rumble more than engage in a jabbing contest. Both guys would take punishment, both guys would be hurt (Liston could do it with one shot, but all those punches from Vitali add up and I can see Liston looking like a pizza at the end of the fight) and it probably wouldn't go to decision. As for who wins the fight, the only answer I can give is the fans. The only real answer I can give is I'm not sure. Very close.

[StarshipTrooper]

I honestly think that this is a 50/50 fight. Maybe slightly favoring Liston, but only just. Vitali is a handful for ANYBODY in history, even if he doesn't have the natural tools to out-and-out beat everyone. His ability to use his size advantages to their maximum potential is huge, he's a solid puncher, he can throw everything. Not terribly fast, but neither is Liston, and I think his defense is pretty good too.

Liston is a tremendous offensive force, but he's not terribly hard to hit, especially if he has to come inside on the bigger man. I realize that he has a longer reach, but anyone who tries to tell me that he's bigger than Vitali is just wrong. I think he'd want to charge inside and rumble more than engage in a jabbing contest. Both guys would take punishment, both guys would be hurt (Liston could do it with one shot, but all those punches from Vitali add up and I can see Liston looking like a pizza at the end of the fight) and it probably wouldn't go to decision. As for who wins the fight, the only answer I can give is the fans. The only real answer I can give is I'm not sure. Very close.

Vitali is not difficult to hit. Lennox (the one Vitali opponent who actually knew how to fight) hit him at will. Target practice. Liston having the longer reach AND the better jab has no need to "charge inside". He can drill Vitali from the outside all night long and there isn't a damn thing Vitali can do about it. He's simply NOT going to outjab Liston.

You're putting way too much value in size here. If being tall and heavy were all that and a bag of chips then Primo Carnera would be the GOAT.

Poet

[MajorKong]

I posted it becuase that's what Liston would do to Vitali's face.

at red herring.

I didn't realize Liston and Lewis were the same person.

My bad.

[BigStereotype]

Vitali is not difficult to hit. Lennox (the one Vitali opponent who actually knew how to fight) hit him at will. Target practice. Liston having the longer reach AND the better jab has no need to "charge inside". He can drill Vitali from the outside all night long and there isn't a damn thing Vitali can do about it. He's simply NOT going to outjab Liston.

You're putting way too much value in size here. If being tall and heavy were all that and a bag of chips then Primo Carnera would be the GOAT.

Poet

Lewis had EXACTLY the wrong combination of reach, equal height and a tremendous straight right to hit Vitali. It's like how Zab Judah was able to rake Mayweather with his straight left early. Some guys just have your number. Not saying that Vitali is as good as Mayweather, but do you see what I'm saying.

Liston would definitely outjab Vitali if it came to it, but I don't think he would do it. I think he would want to mix it up, just because of the mental impression of giving up 6 inches in height. I never really considered Liston much of a strategist.

I don't see how I'm putting too much value in size. I've got a bunch of considerations here but that is a part of it. Height by itself is not big, but knowing how to use it can be. Are you trying to tell me that Panama Al Brown's massive height advantage wasn't a factor in his success?

[Greatest1942]

That would be an obese Middlweight named Chris Byrd.....who at best may be top-200.

Poet

“How I feel about the win? My thought is you don’t quit the fight. I don’t care what happens. If you’re a champion, you know you’re winning, why would you quit? You just don’t do that. I’ve been injured in many fights that people don’t even know about. I’m a very small guy. I mean, I’ve suffered major injuries in the ring while I boxed, and one of them being I got my nose broke, pushed all the way over in the first round. I didn’t quit. I didn’t tell anybody. I just sat in the corner and was like, ‘Oh my goodness’, because if the doctor would have checked me they would have stopped the fight. I didn’t want to lose. So with the heart of a champion, you keep fighting. With German reports of the fight, as opposed to HBO, in Germany they had either way 5-4 for either person going into the tenth round. So I don’t know if he was hearing German reports and the fight was close, but you don’t cop out. You may have a shoulder injury but you keep fighting. It’s part of the sport, it’s a hurt sport, so looking at that I would have kept fighting. That’s why I was so happy after the fact that it didn’t seem like he was truly hurt, but in the fight I threw really good body shots and early on he wasn’t grunting at all when I hit him to the body and then in the fifth or sixth round he started to, and I’m like, ‘Oh, I’m getting to him, more and more, and people don’t see this’. I’m like wow. That’s why I kept cutting the distance if you noticed in the fight and he ended up quitting. It was a cheerful moment for me because I took this fight on eight days notice and I hate to say it, but I had major diarrhea going into the fight because I wasn’t adjusted to the food and I was drinking juice over there that was 100% so it goes right through you and when I got in the ring I probably weighed 199 pounds and I’m fighting a guy who weighed around 250. I was just extra excited and overwhelmed with emotion because that was a giant killer everybody said, that I’m hearing, that nobody could beat. He was 27-0 with 27 knockouts, I’m like, ‘Man, I guess I am pretty good’. Especially coming off of the Ike Ibeabuchi loss which still haunted me, and I’m in the mix now, where I wanted to be.”---you know who...

Liston quit against Ali...what did he think Of Sonny Liston:-

“He the devil.
Not enough fire in hell for him.”

See the difference...One great calls Liston fearsome, and a top -200 (LOL POET) calls Vitaly a quitter

[MajorKong]

I honestly think that this is a 50/50 fight. Maybe slightly favoring Liston, but only just. Vitali is a handful for ANYBODY in history, even if he doesn't have the natural tools to out-and-out beat everyone. His ability to use his size advantages to their maximum potential is huge, he's a solid puncher, he can throw everything. Not terribly fast, but neither is Liston, and I think his defense is pretty good too.

Liston is a tremendous offensive force, but he's not terribly hard to hit, especially if he has to come inside on the bigger man. I realize that he has a longer reach, but anyone who tries to tell me that he's bigger than Vitali is just wrong. I think he'd want to charge inside and rumble more than engage in a jabbing contest. Both guys would take punishment, both guys would be hurt (Liston could do it with one shot, but all those punches from Vitali add up and I can see Liston looking like a pizza at the end of the fight) and it probably wouldn't go to decision. As for who wins the fight, the only answer I can give is the fans. The only real answer I can give is I'm not sure. Very close.

Vitali is the alpha, he would make Liston do what he wanted to do and put him where he wanted to put him.

Liston was too slow and his jab was too clumsy, after a few rounds Vitali would counter it with a big right hand over the top and k.o Liston or make him quit or resort to cheating.

Liston had no heart, he took a dive, quit and tried to cheat against a guy who was half the hitter Vitali is.

[BigStereotype]

Vitali is the alpha, he would make Liston do what he wanted to do and put him where he wanted to put him.

Liston was too slow and his jab was too clumsy, after a few rounds Vitali would counter it with a big right hand over the top and k.o Liston or make him quit or resort to cheating.

Liston had no heart, he took a dive, quit and tried to cheat against a guy who was half the hitter Vitali is.

Does Shane Mosley have no heart? He all but took a dive in his fight with Pacquiao in a very similar situation.

And his jab was CERTAINLY not clumsy. You could say he was slow, but his jab was like a piston. Perfectly smooth and with a terrific amount of force.

[MajorKong]

Does Shane Mosley have no heart? He all but took a dive in his fight with Pacquiao in a very similar situation.

And his jab was CERTAINLY not clumsy. You could say he was slow, but his jab was like a piston. Perfectly smooth and with a terrific amount of force.

Yeah, it was thrown properly but he telegraphed it because he was so slow. That's what I meant by clumsy.

And yeah, tbh, I don't think Shane Mosley has heart, at least not for a few years now. Did he have heart when he was 25? Seemed like it. But heart doesn't stay with you forever in boxing i.e "my heart's not in it anymoar" ...

He flat out bitched out in his last few fights and admitted it too.

[BigStereotype]

Yeah, it was thrown properly but he telegraphed it because he was so slow. That's what I meant by clumsy.

And yeah, tbh, I don't think Shane Mosley has heart, at least not for a few years now. Did he have heart when he was 25? Seemed like it. But heart doesn't stay with you forever in boxing i.e "my heart's not in it anymoar" ...

He flat out bitched out in his last few fights and admitted it too.

But that's not what happened with Liston because...?

Sonny Liston > you, wackaloon

[StarshipTrooper]

Lewis had EXACTLY the wrong combination of reach, equal height and a tremendous straight right to hit Vitali. It's like how Zab Judah was able to rake Mayweather with his straight left early. Some guys just have your number. Not saying that Vitali is as good as Mayweather, but do you see what I'm saying.

Liston would definitely outjab Vitali if it came to it, but I don't think he would do it. I think he would want to mix it up, just because of the mental impression of giving up 6 inches in height. I never really considered Liston much of a strategist.

I don't see how I'm putting too much value in size. I've got a bunch of considerations here but that is a part of it. Height by itself is not big, but knowing how to use it can be. Are you trying to tell me that Panama Al Brown's massive height advantage wasn't a factor in his success?

Check the reach. I think you'll find Brown had a significant REACH advantage (76" for a Featherweight) over most of his opponents and THAT was the key factor in his success. Height is basically irrelevant as the difference in height is the same for both fighters. It's the reach that counts and even then a reach advantage can be gotten around by an opponent who knows what he's doing. The problem with Vitali's opponents is that they have absolutely no clue how to fight someone with a longer reach.

Poet