Rating Carlos Monzon's wins

**slicksouthpaw16** · 08-17-2011, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by SCtrojansbaby

For a long time I have considered Ali RJJ JCC SRL and Duran to be my clear top 5 modern boxers. Been watching more of Monzon lately and I think he should be in that tier where do you rate his wins

A+ = Jones over Toney, Foreman over Frazier 1, Pacquiao over Barrera 1, Chavez over Camacho

A = Examples: Ali over Foreman, Leonard over Duran 2 Trinidad over Vargas, Foreman over Norton, Barrera over Hamed

A- = Examples: Trinidad over DLH, Taylor over Hopkins, Lewis over Vitali, Winky over Mosley, McCallum over Collins

you guys kind of get the point I hope only rate the wins you think are B+ and higher

Wait how is Ali's win over Foreman not in the A+ category? Trinidad-Vargas, Barrera-Hamed and Leonard-Duran 2 are fights i would make A+ too.

**Perfect Plex** · 08-17-2011, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by slicksouthpaw16

Wait how is Ali's win over Foreman not in the A+ category? Trinidad-Vargas, Barrera-Hamed and Leonard-Duran 2 are fights i would make A+ too.

Ali's win over Foreman is clearly A+ but although there very good wins the others shound't be A+. There A or A- imo.

**Perfect Plex** · 08-17-2011, 11:32 PM

A+ Wins have gotta be something special etc..........

-Armstrong Beaten Ross
-Fitzsimmons Beaten Corbett
-Langford Beaten Gans
-Ali Beaten Foreman
-Duran Beaten Leonard
-Ray Robinson Beaten Lamotta (VI)

There a good few more aswell......

**Perfect Plex** · 08-17-2011, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by slicksouthpaw16

Wait how is Ali's win over Foreman not in the A+ category? Trinidad-Vargas, Barrera-Hamed and Leonard-Duran 2 are fights i would make A+ too.

I find it hard to put Trinidad's win over Vargas(Who probaly isn't even gonna get in the IBHOF) in thr caliber of.....
-Armstrong Beaten Ross
-Fitzsimmons Beaten Corbett
-Langford Beaten Gans
-Ali Beaten Foreman
-Duran Beaten Leonard
-Ray Robinson Beaten Lamotta (VI)

These are real A+ type wins.

**slicksouthpaw16** · 08-17-2011, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by The Cuban Hawk

Ali's win over Foreman is clearly A+ but although there very good wins the others shound't be A+. There A or A- imo.

Leonard-Duran is debatable but i would definitely make Trinidad's win over Vargas A+. Not just the performance but the significance too. Vargas was an unbeaten dangerous puncher who had beaten Winky and other veterans at junior middle (like Quartey and Marquez) and was a weight class bigger than Tito. That's impressive enough to be A+ IMO.

**Perfect Plex** · 08-17-2011, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by slicksouthpaw16

Leonard-Duran is debatable but i would definitely make Trinidad's win over Vargas A+. Not only the fight itself but the significance. Vargas was an unbeaten dangerous puncher who had beaten Winky and other veterans at junior middle (like Quartey and Marquez) and was a weight class bigger than Tito. That's impressive enough to be A+ IMO.

It's a good win but no way is it A+. Like I said these are A+ wins for me....

-Armstrong Beaten Ross
-Fitzsimmons Beaten Corbett
-Langford Beaten Gans
-Ali Beaten Foreman
-Duran Beaten Leonard
-Ray Robinson Beaten Lamotta (VI)

Trinidad win over Vargas don't belong in them type of wins.

**slicksouthpaw16** · 08-17-2011, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by The Cuban Hawk

A+ Wins have gotta be something special etc..........

-Armstrong Beaten Ross
-Fitzsimmons Beaten Corbett
-Langford Beaten Gans
-Ali Beaten Foreman
-Duran Beaten Leonard
-Ray Robinson Beaten Lamotta (VI)

There a good few more aswell......

So Duran beating Leonard was A+ but not the other way around? Leonard wasn't moving up like Duran was, but Duran is still an all time great and Ray was only the second fighter to beat him, and the WAY he beat him...................

**slicksouthpaw16** · 08-17-2011, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by The Cuban Hawk

It's a good win but no way is it A+. Like I said these are A+ wins for me....

-Armstrong Beaten Ross
-Fitzsimmons Beaten Corbett
-Langford Beaten Gans
-Ali Beaten Foreman
-Duran Beaten Leonard
-Ray Robinson Beaten Lamotta (VI)

Trinidad win over Vargas don't belong in them type of wins.

You seem to only make the wins A+ if two fighters were all time greats or, in the "ibhof". That's where I'm different. I look at the circumstances and how much of a threat the fighter was going in. For example, i would make Barrera's win over Hamed A+ for the same reason. Barrera was seen as "ripe for the picking" for Hamed, who was the most dangerous featherweight and who had extensive accomplishments. IMO they don't have to be two all time greats, there are more variables then that.

**SCtrojansbaby** · 08-18-2011, 12:16 AM

A+ wins are total domination of A level fighters. Ali didn't totally dominate Foreman. Vargas isn't an A level fighter and he wasn't totally dominated. Duran didn't totally dominate Leonard etc

But back to Monzon how do you rate

Valdez 1
Valdez 2
Napoles
Griffith 1
Griffith 2
Benvetuni 1
benvetuni 2

Rating Carlos Monzon's wins